Bullying, blackmail etc. other people - how to avoid?

[Curse]

you said " I just want to find out how to negotiate in a friendly and respectable way"  but earlier you said " I want slots and a route sharing agreement  and in return I will not open a base at his airport and damage and/or crush his little airline and get all his slots"


So you basically are saying "lets work to gether or i am going to crush his little airline and take the slots anyway"

No. That is what blackmail is. I want to offer teamwork in a friendly way. But I think it is nice to tell people what consequences are possible. For example I'm based at an airport that can't be used as a base, while the other guy is at an airport that is one of four (or 25%) of possible base airports in our country.

The next point is, I run a huge airline with nearly unlimited financial background and I have lots of time. I accept you can't know both, because you are very new to AirwaySim.

There is no third option like "let's hug each other and sing friendly peace songs". There's just work together or get eaten by the next guy on Darwin's ladder.

"but then are offended when we wish your airline fails"

Yes, because I seriously tried to find a way to work in a friendly way some negotiations out. As you may have noticed I prefer a friendly way and nobody will ever tell you I haven't cancelled routes if a smaller or newer guy/airline asked me to do so. Or do you think I lease out my aircraft in Jet Age #4 very cheap because it's a cool strategy?
No. It's because I like the benefit in working together.

But working together means to find realistic ways. I now have more than 60% market share and will not go back to 50% and disclaim a good base airport and accept some random guy uses my slots but isn't based at my HQ. I'm not mother Therese - what leads us to the fact I will share 75:25, what seems to be a very big problem for you and some others.

, I DONT CARE, because you are threatening to do the same thing to some one else.

No, I searched for alternatives to avoid exactly this - destroying or damaging another airline, while the most easiest way would be to do exactly this.

I am offended by your cocky attitude that you think if you dont get your way you can just take what you want regardless.

Ah. The guy who insults others here is "offended" (Why? We don't share any game worlds and I haven't directed this thread to you) by my "cocky attitude", what was simply a friendly request for ideas from native English speakers.
I don't know how things are handled at your home, but I was teached to ask for help if I feel myself unsure or if I want to get some more sentiments on a topic.

"There is a violation"

To lay down the paragraph like you do would mean a larger airline is not allowed to act agains a smaller airline until the smaller airline gets bigger than the first airline. This doesn't make sense in a competive game and, in contrast to you, I play this game a bit longer and already had fights in the past. Fortunately I won them all and there happened some really massacres.
But nice to see at least one other person has read the manual. A big plus for you on this.

"Well you are TARGETING him if you plan to "crush his little airline"

As long as there's no city based demand it is hard to fly other routes out of smaller domestic airports.

So yes by you saying you want to shut down some one elses airline

Again, this is a logical consequence and nothing one must explain seperately.



However, I'm a bit surprised some starter that wasn't involved in some AWS games and knows the mechanics etc. is talking with such a big mouth. Hopefully you not only read the manual but also my FAQ. If not I'm sure you and your airline will be the one that fail hard... like many - or most - others here.



Edit:

Jona, it doesn't matter how long CXP has been registered because he's plainly right.

It does matter. Does he face slot problems in the beginner games? Or other serious AWS business? Have you ever see my talking about Nuclear Physics? No.

The fact of the matter is that Sebastian asks for a non-rude message which would prevent you from being banned, which is frankly not possible as constructively proven by this same guy.

Nope. I asked how to describe it nice and show somebody that it is _no blackmail_, but just to name the consequences. Exactly the same consequences that will occur if I don't write any message.

You guys fail to understand that this game is not about crushing others

The game is about fun. There was a time we shared the same type of fun - running big airlines. This fun is restricted by slots and/or routes, but in the airports we used to start mainly slots. So there are two possiblities: Fly to Helsinki and force sami with a gun to edit the database for more slots... or get a better share on the already build in slots. I remind me slots were often a big topic in our skype talkings.

99% of those who register here, sign up with the intent to live the dream of finally running their own airline. In contrast from what you believe, this does not per definition include being the biggest, most dominant airline in the game world.

No problem. I didn't even run to sami when some competitor tried to pull me out of bases. It's business and it's not too hard to survive.

Or does this 'Airline XY BKd'-thread never exist in your internal forums? Where everybody is happy about slots at airport XY and an competitor less? I'm just curious, because you sound like you love competition at the moment.

It almost seems like you don't enjoy running the actual airline anymore, since you're so determined to crush and beat others that you engage in practices such as "leave the route or I'll unleash my endless powers", which is, in my view, the bottom line here.

And because I'm so into bashing others I killed Leadfoot in JA#4 a long time ago or went after him when he opened his base at Seattle. Oh, wait, I didn't. Damn. And I was nearly convinced I'm the a*** you try to make me thing I am.

[CXP211]

for one my airline is doing just fine.  now you said "no thats what blackmail is:  well you are issuing an ultimatum, do what i want or i will crush you.  PERIOD you ARE blackmailing and extorting the little airline,  You even made the topic of the thread "Bullying, Blackmail etc, how to avoid"   so you know you are bullying and blackmailing. and sami said the easiest way to do it is DONT DO IT.   So what you can not open another base with your unlimited resources and time?   by saying you will crush him and take his routs is still a violation you are purposefully targeting this person.   so we have to agree to dissagree,  you hope my airline fails, well its doing good any way i dont care,  And if you choose to "Crush the little guy" well than I hope the routes you try to open in his markets fail worse, especially since he is already established on those routes.    So why is it that you must crush him and take his slots, You cant use other slots?  doesnt he have a right to those slots?  dont you think those slots are just as important to the little guy as they are to you.  I would not give up my best slots just so some big airline can come in and make more money while i take crappy slots, have to pay money when changing slots etc.  YES it costs if i need to change routes, thats Why i plan them carefully in the first place,  So if it were me aginst you, I would say bring it, and i hope you fail miserably.    But i cant speak for the other guy.   

[alexgv1]

I've refrained from posting up 'til now, as not to get banned. But a few things must now be said.

CXP I don't think anyone is saying your point is less valid because you're new, just that you haven't seen the full workings on AWS so maybe you still hold an optimistic view of what things are like in the manual.

I've been bullied out of my routes and HQ in a previous game world back when ABCBA routing was allowed by some guy called Crazybernie. There are people like that in the game but he was never the best. It wasn't fun.

You say you are here to have fun, well you seem to be getting quite upset from the tone of your posts so maybe you should step away from the PC and review this in fresh light.

And I'd call for maybe a lock on the thread (not telling anyone how to do their jobs or blackmailing them  ) as this will escalate soon.

[LemonButt]

Does anyone know how to remove red wine stains from carpet?  I've tried everything and can't seem to get the stains out.  Please advise.

[EYguy]

Curse, I would say that simply killing the guy in the other hub will work better: it will take a long time but in the end you'll have 100% of the demand and IF anyone comes on the same route, you can beat the hell out of him/her without asking permission to anyone!

Regards

[alexgv1]

Does anyone know how to remove red wine stains from carpet?  I've tried everything and can't seem to get the stains out.  Please advise.

If you have Vanish Oxi Action where you are then that works. It's like a spray foam you leave on for ten minutes then sponge up.

[CXP211]

Alex thank you for the respectful post, much appreciated.  I do have to say i often times play devils advocate and stand up for the little guy (heck i was a union rep previously)  But the reason i take it a bit more serious is once this is done i am ready to move on to one of the bigger games.  and if you read some of the posts by the original poster, He bashes practically every airline.  How about his post where he requests "that all other airlines flying to haneda have their slots revoked"  well its that kinda thinking that irks me, he thinks he is the biggest baddest thing out there, and I hope he fails for once to knock him down a peg.   There is also a difference betweeing being bullied out of certian routes, and Having some one intentionally shutting down your operation to take the slots.    This guy is saying either do what i say or im going to put you out of business to the other airline.  that shows he has an intent on violating the anti compettitive rules.  And more importantly it says alot about him as a person, (cant say whay i really want to)  if he is just willing to be a _________ to other people.

In response to cures, you say just because you dont have 200% of the demand and undersale tickets, your right you are not violating that but you are voilating  deliberately targeting many/all routes of a single airline are considered unfair competition, especially if the "target" is a new / small airline  You said it your self you are going to try and crush the other airline, basically so you can have all the routes,  well, that is an anti copettitive attack. 

as for curse you said to read your FAQ  
what FAQ?

[Curse]

You even made the topic of the thread "Bullying, Blackmail etc, how to avoid"   so you know you are bullying and blackmailing

Yeah, because, as I said a hundred times, I will not blackmail somebody. Doesn't avoid mean not to do anything? Isn't it the exact translation of the German word "vermeiden"?

The topic just says I know what bullying and blackmail is and I will not sound in the PM like I will do so.

and sami said the easiest way to do it is DONT DO IT.

And this is exactly where this topic could be ended. But no, some smart guys like you showed up and started some stupid flame war.

So what you can not open another base with your unlimited resources and time?

Because AirwaySim has STATIC demand. And in Japan the possibilitys for good base airports are extremely limited. As I pointed out, there are three to five good possibilities - what mainly means no night curfews.

In AWS it is not possible to open bases everywhere in the world, so I'm sticking to my home country. Something the manual explains by the way.

so we have to agree to dissagree,

Or simply don't say anything if you can't help in the topic.

you hope my airline fails,

Stop laying words in my mouth. I said your airline will fail if you don't prepare. To be honest I really don't care about you as a individuum or your airline.

And if you choose to "Crush the little guy" well than I hope the routes you try to open in his markets fail worse, especially since he is already established on those routes. 

I see, you haven't read the FAQ and other helpful threads until now. Otherwise you would know better.

So why is it that you must crush him and take his slots, You cant use other slots? 

No, all other slots are gone. You will notice this very fast if you participate in a full game world and try to fly or base at a bigger airport. There are "my" slots and the slots of other airlines. The only possibility to increase "my" slots is to take them away from others. And this is only possible with competition.... or wait until somebody is bored and leaves.

doesnt he have a right to those slots? 

Oh, for sure. But I would love it more to see those slots in my hand. You know. Making him happy doesn't make automatically me happy.

I would not give up my best slots just so some big airline can come in and make more money while i take crappy slots,

You don't get the point.

At the moment we both fight on the route. This consumes a lot slots at my airport and a lot slots at his airport and always binds many aircraft to those routes. If we could find some solution we both could use bigger aircraft and use our slots for other routes.
This would gain profit for both of us.

have to pay money when changing slots etc. 

Not really. It's not about a major airport, so slot fees are small and he also must not pay any antimonopoly fee.

So if it were me aginst you, I would say bring it, and i hope you fail miserably.    But i cant speak for the other guy.

And then? My HQ would make money and my base too, but you would have problems with competition.

So maybe you have shown to me who is the hardest guy, but have you won? No.

Basing at an airport other people can base always weakens your position extremely as long as you are not able to control all the slots. This game mechanic wasn't my idea but I must deal with it.

[CXP211]

you can always open another base cant you?  if not well you have been around long enough to know what limits there are on opening bases and could have chosen to make your home base some where else.

[Curse]

Curse, I would say that simply killing the guy in the other hub will work better: it will take a long time but in the end you'll have 100% of the demand and IF anyone comes on the same route, you can beat the hell out of him/her without asking permission to anyone!

Regards

That's the probem! I don't want to kill others, I prefer some solution that works for both sides! If I would be some ruthless guy there wouldn't be a thread like this!

Or do you think I just have fun to argue here about such kindergarden things? Can't use my time better? ... and no, you must not answer on this

[CXP211]

At the moment we both fight on the route. This consumes a lot slots at my airport and a lot slots at his airport and always binds many aircraft to those routes. If we could find some solution we both could use bigger aircraft and use our slots for other routes.
This would gain profit for both of us.

Finally a point we agree on.

But as far as blackmail, You said previously you gave him the "option" of doing what you say, or "crushing" him.  that IS BLACKMAIL.

Now you could start your base at any airport in the world at the begining of the game well you chose that airport so well you live with that choice, try starting the game a different country with room to expand such as the US or EU    you have been around long enough to know that certian countries or regions have limited expansion possibilities when you first choin the game.

[GEnx]

Sebastian, listen.. Domination is one thing, competition is something completely different. I think it is important to distinguish between the two, since you might have misinterpreted my intentions. I love competition as much as you do, it's what makes this game as fun as it is. I don't want to sit on my own in a huge airport filling the demand like a machine. It's great to see how some strategies work better than others, just to name an example. This is also why we have a Bankrupt Thread, to simply keep each other updated about the world's progress. Until this point, I think actually enjoying the airline still fully applies (and we have discussed this many times over Skype, indeed).

Domination, though, is where things get more tricky. This is what I mean with "enjoying to crush others" or, as you put it yourself, "crushing a little airline". This simply implies the intent to solely bring others down, not enjoying the airline as it is. I'm sorry if you did not intend to put it this way, but to me, it seemed like you did. Please, remember that I do not share CXP's attitude towards you in particular (this is very important), I am just concerned that the way you play AirwaySim has differed from the times at Skype that you referred to (i.e. from competitive to dominating).

[alexgv1]

Respectfully, how about we leave any more postings for now guys.

I think you've both had your final says and have both calmed down a bit and seen some of each others points.

If you want to continue the debate, there is tomorrow, or sometime in another thread.

[Curse]

and if you read some of the posts by the original poster, He bashes practically every airline.

Yeah. You never see me hanging around helping others like here or here or maybe here.

I'm just here to bash small guys like you, kill pets and sell pictures of naked clowns to criminal East Block clans.

he thinks he is the biggest baddest thing out there,

You don't know what I think. And I'm not thinking I'm the biggest fish here, but on the other hand I know about my abilities.

that shows he has an intent on violating the anti compettitive rules.

That's wrong and I would please you stop saying this. I told you already I'm not going especially after competition - and I never have. But if I open a base I do my normal scheduling mode and for sure some of the routes are already flown by this other guy. So doing something because it's the only way of game mechanics doesn't mean it's an evil idea to kill somebodys work.

And more importantly it says alot about him as a person

Hui. Even people like Quinoky or Jona L. can't they what kind of person am I and they skyped with me for years. But you can? That's very cool. Are you able to move to Europe? I'm searching somebody with a magic eye for my company in 2-3 years and if you are as good as this guy in the TV series "Lie to me", I'll have you!

well, that is an anti copettitive attack.  

Evidence? Don't think too long about. I studied law, I'm familar with laws and what they intend.

as for curse you said to read your FAQ  
what FAQ?

The one that is announced big in this forum:
https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,30042.0.html


Because I like to crush noobs I thought it's a clever idea to help them and make them stronger  


Edit:

Now you could start your base at any airport in the world at the begining of the game well you chose that airport so well you live with that choice, try starting the game a different country with room to expand such as the US or EU    you have been around long enough to know that certian countries or regions have limited expansion possibilities when you first choin the game.

There is room for expansion. The consequences for other airlines are pointed out enough and everybody playing this game knows them.

Also I'm normally based at Los Angeles. You are invited to join next game world and see yourself if I'm the bad guy or not. No offense, yeah? No bullying. No threat. I know you intend things wrong very fast, so please accept it's just an information and invitation.

[LemonButt]

I like bananas because they have no bones.

[GEnx]

I like bananas because they have no bones.

Why are bananas curved?

[NorgeFly]

I have to agree with the sentiments expressed by several others here - it doesn't matter how you say it, what you want to do is unfair. Using your power and size to try and push a smaller airline (or even equal size airline for that matter) out of a market is anticompetitive.

Any deals done between players should not be done out of fear that another player may take it upon themselves to destroy their airline (and game).

[LemonButt]

Why are bananas curved?

I don't know.  But I do know that the curvature of the banana is regulated by the European Union.  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/world/europe/12iht-food.4.17771299.html

[Curse]

This simply implies the intent to solely bring others down, not enjoying the airline as it is. I'm sorry if you did not intend to put it this way, but to me, it seemed like you did.

What's next? Taking the free candy van joke at the start as a serious thing and send the police after me?

Again, if my intention was just to kill some airline, I will not going to open a thread about how to avoid this. Simply this fact should be evidence enough to make everything clear. But no, we discuss and argue and discuss because either I have written it in a very misunderstand way or some people can't get the point.

But nice to see even close AWS friends think I'm going stick at nothing. Maybe I should really start to act this way, I'm absolutely sure it would make life much easier for me. Not for others but as I pointed out it seems even you don't think I care about them. I'm very sad about this.

[CXP211]

Curse.  thanks for adding the link.   And i will be the first to say it perhaps i am wrong.  And maybe its just the way you come off (and thats the problem with forums in general there is no tone and inflection so you can never tell)    As far as evidence your study of law is not relevent.  If what you said was he had to do what you say or you would intentioanlly crush him,  leads me to believe that you were hell bent on domination.  If that is not the case than my appologies.  But my question to you is,  If you know you are limited in expansion and limited in opening other bases from that country, than why do you do it?   as you say you have been around a while why base an airline in a country that offers no room for expansion.    Now in your defense if the little guy has been around as long as you have, I say feel free and go at it because after a year he should know better.  But my whole issue was you issuing an ultimatum to the little guy saying do what i say or ill crush you.   That really is kinda snide and wrong.   I say go ahead, use your larger fleet, if he is not smart enough to react to the dynamics that becomes his problem.  But also bear in mind that Larger aircraft also cost more money.   I dont know if there is a way you can Lease some of your large aircraft to him at a deal he cant refuse, but that might be a better comprimise.    Now i am not sure where you are. and there may be some sultural misunderstandings.   In the future just go on and steadily build as you see fit, either he will adapt or he will fail.  but telling some one you have two options 1. work with me (do what i say) 2. pay the price (i will crush you)  is blackmail.   if you just go on and expand in a normal manner than go ahead and do it. but don't do it just to push the other guy out and take his slots. thats all.