Changelog and Previews comment thread

[Cornishman]

I totally agree with MuzhikRB

So now we should change the name of these group - no more an "Alliance" which means a group who get to gether for the common good of all.  Instead now we should call them a "Cartel" because if you want to be at the top of the leaderboard, then you had best gather together only the top most experienced players all under one Cartel.

[DanDan]

I totally agree with MuzhikRB

So now we should change the name of these group - no more an "Alliance" which means a group who get to gether for the common good of all.  Instead now we should call them a "Cartel" because if you want to be at the top of the leaderboard, then you had best gather together only the top most experienced players all under one Cartel.

... and no more goodies and cheap planes for those broke guys in the alliance! ... instead we all offer cheap flights to Cali and Medellin 

[Sami]

As already mentioned previously - the updated scoring system is this, and will stay like this for now. You might want to see how it works for some time before getting all worked up..... Thank you for the comments, ideas and for some surprising over-reactions in a rather tiny matter (in the overall scheme of all things).

Since I can't spend my time in herding this topic and off topic messages seem unavoidable, this thread is now temporarily locked for commenting.

[Tsuneyoshi]

Hey Sami!!

I hope you remember me, I'm the guy that talked to you about Convair 880/990. Will they be updated at this patch?

Thanks!

[tyteen4a03]

Is the new expansion system turned on in GW#2?

[gazzz0x2z]

Is the new expansion system turned on in GW#2?

Check the world news, quite a few expansions have launched already.

[Zobelle]

Hey Sami!!

I hope you remember me, I'm the guy that talked to you about Convair 880/990. Will they be updated at this patch?

Thanks!

Which?

If I remember correctly the 990 range needs to be updated as historically a pair of charter airlines did in fact use for nonstop TATL.

[Sami]

Hey Sami!!

I hope you remember me, I'm the guy that talked to you about Convair 880/990. Will they be updated at this patch?

Thanks!

All in due time. Quite much new a/c data available thanks to research and will focus exactly in these less accurate models before fine tuning modern plane models.


And on the matter of the new infra expansions. You will see quite many news of this sort being posted initially since there's obviously a bit of a backlog since the system activates in-game. But should smoothen in a few game years.

[gazzz0x2z]

And on the matter of the new infra expansions. You will see quite many news of this sort being posted initially since there's obviously a bit of a backlog since the system activates in-game. But should smoothen in a few game years.

Makes sense : all airport extensions are late, the game will need a few years to be back to normal.

[JumboShrimp]

Is there a cap on the traffic level based on year?

Because in 1959, in GW2, it seems all of the airports are capped at traffic level 3.

[rntair]

Although the talk of the alliance scoring has died down, I can attest to the fact that being in an alliance as a starting player with little experience and a low score is EXTREMELY helpful. I learned almost everything I know now through either the forums or my brief days of playing in Phoenix in 2016. The cooperative gameplay of an alliance helps keep new players interested and invested in the game, and it allows them to gain in-game experience and tips to help them build successful airlines in the future. Had I not played Phoenix back then I may have never developed a hobby in AWS that brought me back to play in early 2019. In all, I think that alliance score shouldn't discourage starting players with lower scores, as this can deprive entry-level players from getting better in the game.

[Wreck]

Slight adjustment based on feedback:

"If the airline has 5 members with airline score values of 5000, 4500, 4000, 4000 and 3500 then the total alliance score is 4725 (average score and 2% of each, with the worst performer (i.e. score of 3500) excluded from the calculation)."

(in effect after 1-3 game months)

And as a comment to the previous post: Alliance is "nothing more" than what the airlines themselves are. So using the airline scores as the basis for the entire alliance scoring is a) logical and b) transparent since the airline score is a good overall metric on the entire operations. Score is a simple value used to compare the performance of airlines/alliances in an easy way. Not to be confused with the alliance rating.

Anyway, with this minor change this update item is closed and moving on to the next ones on my list.

This, I cannot agree with. The airline score is heavily weighted towards a large fleet size. A less than mediocre giant will always outscore a very efficiently run small (200-300 aircraft) airline. Look at the airline score listing in any game world for evidence.

New players often need to operate in countries that will not profitably support more than 300 aircraft to learn how the game works. Under the new Alliance scoring there is no incentive to help new players (apart from the token "one") as they will inevitibly lower the alliance score & it is clearly intended to be a competitive environment because a score is calculated.

I can however see how these changes will aid an alliance that specialises in giant airlines, draw your own conclusions.

I can only see this as a very short sighted and backward step.

[Sami]

As mentioned earlier there won't be any changes to the alliance score for now.

The old scoring method was totally broken and not suitable even the slightest to the long game worlds (it was never designed for 1yr+ games!), as the only thing what it rewarded was keeping the alliance alive from day 1 to the end and making sure nobody got any penalties from strikes or bankruptcies, everything else was irrelevant.


Airline score is designed so that biggest does NOT mean highest score. GW#4; top scorer has a fleet of ~600 while airline with largest (~1500) fleet is at place 13 currently. And of course one cannot be at the top with a 20-plane fleet in a long game.

And also in GW#4 the top scoring alliance has a) high number of members (second highest at 33) and b) very diverse member base with their airline scores ranging from near-top 5540 to low 2256. Just as an example as I was active in that game just now. (not starting any debate here, as the feature was just updated and won't be revisited now)


(p.s. and I hope everyone have read the manual about the score update and noted that there are no penalties for bankruptcies or such anymore. So no need to leave the alliance before b/c and a member going missing in action doesn't count negatively towards the score, and so on.)

[Tha_Ape]

As mentioned earlier there won't be any changes to the alliance score for now.

The old scoring method was totally broken and not suitable even the slightest to the long game worlds (it was never designed for 1yr+ games!), as the only thing what it rewarded was keeping the alliance alive from day 1 to the end and making sure nobody got any penalties from strikes or bankruptcies, everything else was irrelevant.


Airline score is designed so that biggest does NOT mean highest score. GW#4; top scorer has a fleet of ~600 while airline with largest (~1500) fleet is at place 13 currently. And of course one cannot be at the top with a 20-plane fleet in a long game.

And also in GW#4 the top scoring alliance has a) high number of members (second highest at 33) and b) very diverse member base with their airline scores ranging from near-top 5540 to low 2256. Just as an example as I was active in that game just now. (not starting any debate here, as the feature was just updated and won't be revisited now)


(p.s. and I hope everyone have read the manual about the score update and noted that there are no penalties for bankruptcies or such anymore. So no need to leave the alliance before b/c and a member going missing in action doesn't count negatively towards the score, and so on.)

If we wanna nitpick, #1 alliance in GW#4 is also the alliance with most planes overall, 33% more than #2 alliance... Which means an average airline 33% larger than in #2.
That's not a slight difference.

[Wreck]

As mentioned earlier there won't be any changes to the alliance score for now.

The old scoring method was totally broken and not suitable even the slightest to the long game worlds (it was never designed for 1yr+ games!), as the only thing what it rewarded was keeping the alliance alive from day 1 to the end and making sure nobody got any penalties from strikes or bankruptcies, everything else was irrelevant.


Airline score is designed so that biggest does NOT mean highest score. GW#4; top scorer has a fleet of ~600 while airline with largest (~1500) fleet is at place 13 currently. And of course one cannot be at the top with a 20-plane fleet in a long game.

And also in GW#4 the top scoring alliance has a) high number of members (second highest at 33) and b) very diverse member base with their airline scores ranging from near-top 5540 to low 2256. Just as an example as I was active in that game just now. (not starting any debate here, as the feature was just updated and won't be revisited now)


(p.s. and I hope everyone have read the manual about the score update and noted that there are no penalties for bankruptcies or such anymore. So no need to leave the alliance before b/c and a member going missing in action doesn't count negatively towards the score, and so on.)

I wasn't really expecting any change.

My point is that a less well run giant will generally outscore a well run smaller airline. This becomes more evident the longer the game world goes on. There too many metrics that favour only the larger airline. With say only 300 aircraft it is exceptionally difficult to break into the top 50. This will change how alliances choose to accept new members, especially the more competitive alliances.

GW#1, nearing the end, 7 airlines with less than 600 planes and 1 with less than 300 in the top 50. 600 planes is a substantial airline for a new player and cannot be achieved if based in a smaller country.

[gazzz0x2z]

GW#1, nearing the end, 7 airlines with less than 600 planes and 1 with less than 300 in the top 50. 600 planes is a substantial airline for a new player and cannot be achieved if based in a smaller country.

I ended up 12th in scoring in last GW3, playing in Algeria.

and honestly, considering the way alliance rating is done, and the influence over LFs, I4d be an alliance leader, I'd be interested by a decent player in a remote place like SGN, just because that player would increase my alliance coverage, and therefore my alliance rating, and therefore my own financial performance.

[Infinity]

I wasn't really expecting any change.

My point is that a less well run giant will generally outscore a well run smaller airline.

As it should because running a larger airline is way more time consuming and challenging.

[Wreck]

As it should because running a larger airline is way more time consuming and challenging.

To run a big airline well, I agree with you & rightly should be rewarded. To run a big airline poorly I think is over rewarded.

[JumboShrimp]

It seems that if the primary driver for the airport expanding is lack of slots, and if the expansion does not (yet) deliver any slots, it seems that in more advanced game worlds, some airports will get back to back expansions.

[dmoose42]

Yes, I was under the impression that with the expansion in infrastructure, a big batch of slots would be released at once (10? 20?)