Frequency Bonus - Gone Mad?

[JumboShrimp]

Currently, there are 123  ( ) daily flights between Honolulu and Kahului, all Dash 8 or 712:
https://www.airwaysim.com/game/Routes/Planning/PHNL/PHOG

I am guessing about 80 daily flights between Honolulu and Lihue.
https://www.airwaysim.com/game/Routes/Planning/PHNL/PHLI

This is in MT4.  Just FYI....

[JumboShrimp]

Ok, one of the 2 airlines involved in this high frequency duel just declared BK, so those links do not show the full number of flights that was there a few hours ago...

[Sami]

In 1.3 this is forbidden by the max daily freq cap/rule

(just fyi)

[Curse]

Hum. Instead of reducing the extreme influence of frequency to LF there's another rule :/  *and yes, I don't know this feature in detail and complain about *

[Powi]

The game mechanicks worked as they ahould: another one could not sustain such a madness.

[JumboShrimp]

Hum. Instead of reducing the extreme influence of frequency to LF there's another rule :/  *and yes, I don't know this feature in detail and complain about *

Yes, I agree.  BTW, you nailed it in another post, linking lack of slots to the overwhelming frequency bonus.

[Dave4468]

Yes, I agree.  BTW, you nailed it in another post, linking lack of slots to the overwhelming frequency bonus.

Yep, but I guess writing a new rule is/was easier than actually fixing the underlying problem...

[filipebravo]

Hum. Instead of reducing the extreme influence of frequency to LF there's another rule :/  *and yes, I don't know this feature in detail and complain about *

I also think this massive frequency influence should be reviewed... Flights at the same hour shouldn't count as frequency... IMHO

[JumboShrimp]

In 1.3 this is forbidden by the max daily freq cap/rule

(just fyi)

Cool, good to know.

But I think it is only a partial solution.  IMO, frequency bonus, if any, should really diminish after 2nd, or at most 3rd flight in a day.  Maybe what should be done is if a player is using more than 3 flights, he would get credit for only 3 flights.  I don't know if this is something that can be done in 1.3, or if it needs to wait for the rework of the demand system...

[MRFREAK]

That's just lame....

[JumboShrimp]

The game mechanicks worked as they ahould: another one could not sustain such a madness.

The ailine that went under was apparently a new, somewhat fragile airline, that did not have enough resources to subsidise this battle - unlike the other player who was a more established airline.

[JumboShrimp]

I also think this massive frequency influence should be reviewed... Flights at the same hour shouldn't count as frequency... IMHO

The system can't really tell time as of now.

But at some point, when we have passenger connections, I guess total amount of time (including connections) would play a factor, meaning the player would probably spread out his flights in order to allow for better connections, and in order to achieve lower total trip time.

[flightsimer]

just noticed this...

what will be the freq limit in 1.3 sami?

I believe that freq should only really be considered for business class and partly for First. Economy travelers just want to go the cheapest.

[Curse]

Is it static or dynamic? So, is the limit between Tokyo Haneda and Fukuoka (~23k pax day) the same as between Los Angeles and Toronto (~500 pax day)?

[JumboShrimp]

If the frequency benefit disappeared after 2 or 3 flights, there woud be no need to limit frequency.  Players would use the most appropriate aircraft on busy routes.

[Curse]

Yep. And it would free up slots if you could use A300 instead to be forced to use B737 or Dash8-Q400 :>

[EYguy]

Yeah, that's a good point.

It is usless to let win the airline with the highest frequency when you have more than 5 or 6 flights per day. I'm still wondering if it only a matter of frequency or the pax do actually care about type of a/c, its age, seating set up and so on...

Actually, on trunk routes in Europe it is unlikey to see a/c smaller than A318, when talking about flagship carriers.

Edo

[Curse]

There are some factors that influence pax choice, but frequency is the most biggest one. As many players here experienced it's even bigger than price+jet image+flight time.

Even time of flight isn't this important, so it's a often used strategy to fly in the night hours nobody want to fly to such an airport, because even nobody wants to take this night flight, your flights to better times have higher LF because of the higher frequency due to the night fly.

Or, to say it in other words. Frequency is Chuck Norris.

[vitongwangki]

I suppose Sami has realized the problem, but clearly is, there is too less parameter set for the competition model.
I don't know how many parameters in the competition system, but I guess is less than 10. However, in an acceptable simulation model, the parameter should at least more than 40, e.g. Price, flight time (duration and dep. time), AVOD, Company image, Connection flight (also dep. time of connection flight), tech-stops (some airlines really doing nonsense tech-stop, tolerance level of tech-stop also different across the timeline), alliance image (and also connection)
There are too much parameters and I do think it is too hard for Sami to include all of them into a system (more parameters, more bug). I hope Sami would set up thread for this kind of reflection, so that the game will be more like a simulation game. 

[Glob-Al]

If the frequency benefit disappeared after 2 or 3 flights, there woud be no need to limit frequency.  Players would use the most appropriate aircraft on busy routes.

I agree - this would make a lot of sense. But perhaps it could be scaled so that the number of flights before you stopped seeing the benefit varied depending on distance. After all IRL people are usually far more fussed about frequency for a short (commuter) flight than for an ultra long haul one where they'll already be spending the best part of a day on the aeroplane. You could make it so that say:
< 300nm - frequency benefit disappears after 5 flights per day
300 - 600nm - after 4 flights
600 - 1200nm - after 3 flights
1200 - 2400nm - after 2 flights
2400 + nm no frequency benefit provided the route is flown every day.