Does this count as overflooding?

[laukkanenmarko]

Hello,

I was just wondering if this kinda counts as overflooding a route, there was no competition when I first started the route between Denver and Oakland in ATB, then there came Lauterjung who started a couple flights a day on the route and this is where it has gone now... I really don't mind competition but this is ridiculous...

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[Curse]

Does he serve over 200% pax demand per day? If yes, it is against the rules.

[JumboShrimp]

It does not look like he is providing > 200%.  The supply is a little over 200%, but that is distributed between 3 airlines.  Lauterjung alone is probably supplying only a little over 100% of the demand.

He is overflooding the route with frequency, but that is not against the rules.

[laukkanenmarko]

Yup he's not providing over 200% but the funny part is that he added those last 7 flights quite a lot after the overall supply had hit over 100% and now that little airline called Sky Blue is going down mostly because of that over supply. Luckily I have also quite a lot other routes which keep me alive. Well since he's (Sky blue) going down the supply level is going down   

[Curse]

What do you have in mind to take over routes if not with this strategy?

[laukkanenmarko]

I would understand it a bit more if the flights would be scattered around the clock but putting 7 flights to leave at the same time is just making a joke of the game. How many times do you see 7 flights leaving to the same destination at the same time from the same airline in real life? This is just a case where a big airline based in a big airport is being a bully to smaller airlines.

And I know that business is business and life isn't fair but still this is just a game, in which people should respect others even a little bit.

[swiftus27]

^^^

while I agree with in real life stuff on this topic.  This is one fight to simply let go for the present time.

[Curse]

I would understand it a bit more if the flights would be scattered around the clock but putting 7 flights to leave at the same time is just making a joke of the game. How many times do you see 7 flights leaving to the same destination at the same time from the same airline in real life? This is just a case where a big airline based in a big airport is being a bully to smaller airlines.

I do the same with small aircraft like ATR. Scheduling one aircraft and then copy the same thing to one or two other... why should I always adjust the times? To make it look better? :> I do this if I have the choice, but mostly the scheduling has no gaps and in AWS (instead of reality) people will not fly in the night, even the alternative is a 20 hour train or 4 day car trip...

[NorgeFly]

I would understand it a bit more if the flights would be scattered around the clock but putting 7 flights to leave at the same time is just making a joke of the game. How many times do you see 7 flights leaving to the same destination at the same time from the same airline in real life? This is just a case where a big airline based in a big airport is being a bully to smaller airlines.

And I know that business is business and life isn't fair but still this is just a game, in which people should respect others even a little bit.

I agree with you. But unfortunately there will always be people who see AWS as a game rather than a simulator. I try to make as much money as possible within the bounds of realism where as some players just want to "win". My short haul aircraft sit on the ground all night, every night because no-one wants to take a 40min domestic flight in the middle of the night in the real world, so in my mind, no-one does in my AWS world either.

I'd love it if everyone tried to keep things as realistic as possible but unfortunately you can't please everyone all of the time. It's frustrating but not a lot that we can do about it I guess 

[MRFREAK]

@NorgeFly

I totally agree with you. It is more realistic and fun if people go af the same permisses as in the real life. Especially with the night time flying. It's just lame 

[Curse]

I'd like to to this also in every aspect of the game, but I hope things like the dynamic city based demand, more pax a day if you fly on different times etc. will lead us all to good realistic game style.

[d2031k]

@NorgeFly

I totally agree with you. It is more realistic and fun if people go af the same permisses as in the real life. Especially with the night time flying. It's just lame  

I quite agree too, although I think eventually a great deal more night flying will become unfeasible once the noise restrictions are fully implemented  I would assume that this would include the introduction of local authority fines and dents in CI if aircraft are too noisy.  Hopefully things like hush-kits will become available as airlines are forced to adhere to the various stages of restrictions.

On a side-note and interestingly I thought, LHR (for example) is not actually closed at night in real life, but the noise restrictions are so tight it's virtually impossible to operate more than a few flights.

   * Aircraft noise levels are added to database (actual noise restrictions will be added later on in v.1.2 development).

[swiftus27]

On a side-note and interestingly I thought, LHR (for example) is not actually closed at night in real life, but the noise restrictions are so tight it's virtually impossible to operate more than a few flights.

I fly IFR out of Heathrow at night all the time in my glider.  The problem is that without a massive updraft, I am usually stuck at the edge of the runway.

[d2031k]

I fly IFR out of Heathrow at night all the time in my glider.  The problem is that without a massive updraft, I am usually stuck at the edge of the runway.

Maybe you could persuade the authorities to install one of these

http://www.hydrowinch.com/site/

[swiftus27]

That would be awesome. 

[Gary]

I'm in beginners world and I also have a problem, it's with an older and much larger airline that already has a hub in North America and has set up a second hub in my hub of Minneapolis and is trying to push me out of my routes.

Apache Airways is oversuppling my established routes by as much as 250% and putting very large aircraft on commuter routes, they have been doing this on many of my routes and are going after all of my main routes.
I imagine it must cost a lot of money to do this because he can't be making much putting 747's and L1011's up against my 737's and 727's on short commuter runs so he must be using his routes from his main hub (Phoenix) to fianance his attack against me.
I wonder how much he's willing to sink into his attempt to drive me out........why did'nt he just set up a second hub in a major city or a undersupplied medium city ?

I was trying to put a chart up of the Minneapolis to Chicago O'hare route but don't know how.......it's a good example of the insane oversupply created by Apache.

[JumboShrimp]

I'm in beginners world and I also have a problem, it's with an older and much larger airline that already has a hub in North America and has set up a second hub in my hub of Minneapolis and is trying to push me out of my routes.

Apache Airways is oversuppling my established routes by as much as 250% and putting very large aircraft on commuter routes, they have been doing this on many of my routes and are going after all of my main routes.
I imagine it must cost a lot of money to do this because he can't be making much putting 747's and L1011's up against my 737's and 727's on short commuter runs so he must be using his routes from his main hub (Phoenix) to fianance his attack against me.

Remember, it is beginner world, and the guy may be beginner himself.  In competition between 747 or L1011 vs. 737, 737 wins, because AWS prefers greater frequency.  Your opponent is losing way more money than you flying and oversupplying route with very large aircraft.

What your opponent may be doing (in addition to hurting you) is filling some gaps in his scedule with a short flight.  Aircraft flying tends to lose less than aircraft sitting around...

If your opponent is oversupplying a route, just contact the administrators with detail info on which routes you are talking about.  The administrator will look at the routes, and potentially warn your opponent if he is violating the rules.

I wonder how much he's willing to sink into his attempt to drive me out........why did'nt he just set up a second hub in a major city or a undersupplied medium city ?

The thing about Minneapolis is that it is the most attractive 2nd hub.  The reason is that you cannot open 2nd hub in top 20 airports, and MSP is just below top 20.  So it is not that he is trying to seek you out and drive you out of business, it is that you just happen to have a hub at a very attractive airport.  As a beginner, you could not have known that, but that is the point of the Beginners world - to learn.

[Jona L.]

I was not supplying 200%, no fear! just that I had only DHC-8 in Oakland... I BKed anyways...

but just for the log: I do not violate such rules!

also, if you think (or want to think) that DHC-8 is an oversupplying plane, then check Patriot airways from DFW! They have over 70 DH8D! they do the complete supply of many 3000+ PAX routes! Just with Dash-8 Q400

Jona L.

[Jona L.]

I would understand it a bit more if the flights would be scattered around the clock but putting 7 flights to leave at the same time is just making a joke of the game. How many times do you see 7 flights leaving to the same destination at the same time from the same airline in real life? This is just a case where a big airline based in a big airport is being a bully to smaller airlines.

And I know that business is business and life isn't fair but still this is just a game, in which people should respect others even a little bit.

Well, this is just gap filling for the time too short for a second flight to MSP or something.... and well, I use to let 5 (or more) flights depart same time... I had flown LGW-CDG in MT#2 with 24 flights a day by using 6 CRJ1 planes and the flights were going all 6 exactly the same times....

To give a RL example:
I was waiting in CDG for a while some months ago, and suddenly 3 FlyBe DHC-8 came down the same time, stopped at 3 neighbored gates, and took off the same time! (I don't know if they just came from different bases... but it would be a strange coincidence... maybe they just shared all the same slot )
Jona L.

[ArcherII]

The thing is that it is NOT real is to have more than one flight depart at the very same time from the same origin to the same destination. It may not be dumb game-wise, but certainly is not performed IRL.
The Flybes may had come from different locations and landed simultaneously at the same airport, that is OK why not. But I won't schedule a couple of flights to a particular destination with same dep time, no no. It's like hiring two combis for students in a vacation trip.