is it a bug or what

[THI]

ok. first of all. i am a quite new player. i have started and started and then i have had david international in tlv in air travel boom.
i have had about 150 a/c. 78% occ. i finished the game because there was no way out. the c checks of my quite old fleet burned me out.

now i have started a  new game. i was getting newer a/c.

D-HXAA       Leased      541 120 USD / month       24-Mar-02      75.1 %       4      27 663 USD       193 837 USD 
D-HXAB    Leased    549 460 USD / month             24-Mar-02    74.9 %    3    39 957 USD    248 405 USD    
D-HXAC    Leased    325 700 USD / month             26-Mar-02    72 %    3            32 106 USD    225 541 USD

you see, that every a/c makes round about 220k a month. this is what the my airlines monitor tells me (the screen is just like an illusion how you will see)
now the following:

Sold tickets (economy)      1 049 478 USD       1 836 188 USD       1 787 798 USD       1 609 460 USD
Info    Sold tickets (business)    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD
Info    Sold tickets (first)    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD
Info    Sold aircraft    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD
Info    Aircraft lease income    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD
Info         1 049 478 USD    1 836 188 USD    1 787 798 USD    1 609 460 USD
Info    Office rent    -4 380 USD    -6 130 USD    -6 125 USD    -6 153 USD
Info    Fuel    -320 152 USD    -555 305 USD    -547 844 USD    -506 960 USD
Info    Staff salaries    -181 794 USD    -181 794 USD    -181 794 USD    -180 825 USD
Info    Staff training    -20 563 USD    -20 556 USD    -20 548 USD    -20 539 USD
Info    Marketing    -2 400 USD    -3 360 USD    -3 360 USD    -3 360 USD
Info    Passenger fees    -133 611 USD    -234 132 USD    -228 424 USD    -205 739 USD
Info    Navigation fees    -74 272 USD    -130 084 USD    -127 491 USD    -116 751 USD
Info    Landing fees    -35 760 USD    -62 280 USD    -61 200 USD    -56 491 USD
Info    Ground handling    -58 613 USD    -102 081 USD    -100 163 USD    -92 545 USD
Info    Aircraft maintenance    -86 031 USD    -105 436 USD    -105 367 USD    -181 624 USD
Info    Aircraft insurance    -27 944 USD    -49 091 USD    -49 273 USD    -48 783 USD
Info    Aircraft leases    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD
Info    Purchased aircraft    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD
Info    Alliance fees    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD
Info    Fines    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD
Info         -945 520 USD    -1 450 249 USD    -1 431 589 USD    -1 419 770 USD
Info    Loan payments    -11 574 USD    -11 549 USD    -11 525 USD    -11 334 USD
Info    Bank fees    -1 010 USD    -1 010 USD    -1 010 USD    -1 010 USD
Info    Interest    -8 420 USD    -8 445 USD    -8 469 USD    -8 915 USD
Info    Income tax withheld (30%)    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD    0 USD
Result    -21 004 USD    -21 004 USD    -21 004 USD    -21 259 USD
Info    Result    82 954 USD    364 935 USD    335 205 USD    168 431 USD

it looks strange but it is easy.
including the bank fees it is round about 1500k a week costs and income is round about 1800k a week.

now: because there was the prepayment of the leasing rates, there is no leasing costs included.
let us look at this:


D-HXAA       Leased      541 120 USD / month       24-Mar-02      75.1 %       4      27 663 USD       193 837 USD 
D-HXAB    Leased    549 460 USD / month             24-Mar-02    74.9 %    3    39 957 USD    248 405 USD    
D-HXAC    Leased    325 700 USD / month             26-Mar-02    72 %    3            32 106 USD    225 541 USD

this is 1400k a month, that is 300k a week.

do you see what i mean ?

I AM ANGRY !!!!!
there will be profit = 0,00


BUT:

this is absolutely scrap what you programmers did because f.e.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_MD-80

...
Operators

In July 2009, 886 MD-80 aircraft (all variants) were in airline service, with American Airlines (306), Delta Air Lines (117), Allegiant Air (47), Alitalia (45), Scandinavian Airlines System (44), Austral Líneas Aéreas (26), Spanair (20), Iberia (18), Meridiana (18), Avianca (12), 1Time Airline (11), and other operators with fewer aircraft of the type.[20]
...

you programmers want us to believe the md series is scrap ?
sorry. but you are wrong.

of course it is only a game, BUT it should be a bit more realistic and not some wish from you programmers which plane is successfull and which not.

for beginners it is like you only want their credits to restart and restart and restart and restart.

please tell me something logical about this. because i did not make ANY fault in this game.....

[Sami]

Sorry but you lost me there?   What is the problem?

[swiftus27]

I think he is realizing that the aircraft profit has nothing to do with an airline's fixed costs?

And my advice....  Old planes & c checks = fail. 

[THI]

Sorry but you lost me there?   What is the problem?

I AM ANGRY !!!!!
there will be profit = 0,00

of course you dont understand because it seems you never understand also not how to handle a paying customer.
your answer yesterday:
THI,

A customer support staff member has replied to your support request, #903876 with the following response:

Hello,

Please try posting to our forums for play help, other players can give better comments there.


We hope this response has sufficiently answered your questions. If you have any further questions please reply to this email.

--
AirwaySim Support
Sami Puro
support@airwaysim.com


IS MY ENGLISH SO BAD ?

[RushmoreAir]

Since I'm not in ATB, I can't see your airline, but your situation sounds like a common beginner issue.  A few of your problems might be caused by the following:

1) High fuel prices.  Even though MD-80s are successful in real life, they burn a lot more fuel than 737s or A320s.  You do have do turn a significant profit on them to break even, which leads to . . .

2) Unprofitable Routes.

you see, that every a/c makes round about 220k a month.

By the looks of your figures, your aircraft make 220k per week, but if they make 220k per month, like you say, you need to get your profits up.  300-400k is a normal profit for a MD-80, so you may have your planes on relatively unprofitable routes.  You may not know it, but marketing and staff costs skyrocket for every new route you add. So, if you have only 1 flight per day to each destination, it will be hideously expensive.  You should try to pile your demand on one or two routes to start.

3) Low CI (Company Image) or RI (Route Image).  You don't spend a whole lot on marketing, so chances are your CI is pretty low.  Spend a bit more to get your Load Factors up to 80-85%.  Then you will turn a profit.  I suspect you have very low RI, because your ticket income has been growing by up to 7% per week.  Spend some money on marketing.  It will be worth the initial outlay.

4) Pricing.  What are you pricing your routes at.  If you are flying midsize jets, like the MD80, I wouldn't discount more than 10% of the suggested price.

5) Location. You have OK load factors, but the registration seems foreign to me.  Where are you based?  I can't see because I am not in ATB.  You might be based in a country that has lower pax numbers.

6) Fleet utilization.  The MD-80s work well on longer routes, as do jets in general.  You seem to be putting them on relatively short-range routes.  I would think that an MD-80 would work well on two routes per day.

7) Fleet commonality. I can't see your airline, but one of the MOST common beginner problems is fleet commonality.  If you have more than 1 fleet type for every 10 aircraft, or more than 4 fleet types total, your commonality costs will kill you.  You don't have too high of maintenance though, so this probably isn't your problem.

And on another note,

you programmers want us to believe the md series is scrap ?
sorry. but you are wrong.
of course it is only a game, BUT it should be a bit more realistic and not some wish from you programmers which plane is successfull and which not.
for beginners it is like you only want their credits to restart and restart and restart and restart.

Don't bash Sami.  He is awesome.  AWS is his second job, and he barely breaks even with credits.  AWS is so cool, and works so well, every user should worship him.  The cost for an airline is actually very cheap, compared to other airline-related media.  I pay less for AWS than I do for my subscription to Airliner World, and I get a lot more fun out of it than I do the magazine.  And Sami runs the show.  He is the only programmer (as far as I know, at least), and he has a second job and a life too.

[THI]

rushmore.
please check the data carefully.
how is it possible that an airline makes 0 profit with an occupancy of 75%.

we both know, it is not possible !

i just want a logical answer for this, not more.
i want a statement why they do this.
i also love this game, but i hate the feeling, that someone ripped me off........

[Sami]

First of all, calm down. Yelling and acting like that does not help anything. As you see, people help and answer to questions here politely and fast, so we'd expect the same for all members.

You used the email form to contact us, and I advised you to post to the forums as here are other users that are helpful and fast in their replies and able to guide you to the right way. As it is stated in the "contact us" page, the contact form is not supposed to be for in-game questions (forum is for that), but rather for account and billing issues that are "private".


Rushmore already posted a good reply. This is NOT an extra easy "game" only. It is natural to have some bankruptcies in the start. There are hundreds of happy and successful players here. And MD-80 works fine for my airline by the way, usually my choice for mid-1990 worlds..

Also you really cannot expect huge profit margins when operating just three aircraft. And the LF % alone does not unfortunately tell anything. Your planes may be full but incomes too low vs. to expenses. But it is of course always case-by-case situation and no airline is the same.

So I'd advise to try to maximize the incomes, while minimizing the costs. (is not that simple what it sounds)

[THI]

ok. it is just a game.

but you did not answer my question to the data i provided.

because there is profit = 0 with 3 quite young and same planes, 3 routes with 75% occupancy.
that is all i want answered. and i calm down when i have fun for my 40 euro i have invested here
and not a moment away to crash my aspire to the next wall..... 

[swiftus27]

I personally love when people act like they are paying a $19.99 per month MMO fee on top of paying $59.99 for the game to begin with.

You pay something like $20 for a game that lasts months.... if you can figure it out and not bankrupt 10x.

Boo hoo.  

I don't help people who act like this.  

It looks like he is making a small weekly profit (hard to tell with all of that junk... you can always just take a screenshot and post using the + Additional Options below where you post).

HERE, AGAIN IS HOW ACCOUNTING WORKS:

SALES - COST OF GOODS SOLD = GROSS PROFIT
GROSS PROFIT - (EXPENSES + LOSSES) = NET PROFIT

Fixed costs.... your offices, your management, training, bank transactions, etc...  ANYTHING not a part of your day to day flight ops does NOT get calculated into your Airplane's Gross Profit.

When you have more planes, each planes has a higher Contribution Margin.  Therefore, the fixed costs are spread among more planes.   So, if you had 800 MD80s, you'd be doing quite well because there are 800 planes paying the CEO's salary, the training department...  You have 3.  

Lastly, if you need help, dont send a GM request.  I get countless PMs asking questions in this game and I take the time to help patient players understand what they need to do. 

[Sami]

swiftus, a bit more helpful attitude please

But like he posted; screenshots of the incomesheet and route-management pages would probably make more sense than all that text of those pages.

[swiftus27]

swiftus, a bit more helpful attitude please

But like he posted; screenshots of the incomesheet and route-management pages would probably make more sense than all that text of those pages.

sorry, I flew off the handle a tad there.... but I am tired of people lashing out like this.  Especially when there are so many people willing to help freely.

[THI]

lol.

answers like "dont use the 727"
or
"the dc9 is sooooooo nice"
are normal. nobody seems to be able to read the data i gave,

ok. i do it another way:
i will bancrupt 10 times more and maybe then i'll understand the game.
i have enough credits for now.......

and: yes swiftus you are right. i payed for scrap like airlines 2 oder airlines 6 much more and
this is only scrap. i must agree with you in this point that it is not expensive here. but it just costs too many nerves.......

[swiftus27]

lol.

answers like "dont use the 727"
or
"the dc9 is sooooooo nice"
are normal. nobody seems to be able to read the data i gave,

ok. i do it another way:
i will bancrupt 10 times more and maybe then i'll understand the game.
i have enough credits for now.......

and: yes swiftus you are right. i payed for scrap like airlines 2 oder airlines 6 much more and
this is only scrap. i must agree with you in this point that it is not expensive here. but it just costs too many nerves.......

Keep in mind, you have been playing for less than one month.  You will fail.  I have failed many times.  It happens.  There is a steep learning curve here.

[Sami]

nobody seems to be able to read the data i gave,

As I said, the data in text format is really unreadable.

But like he posted; screenshots of the incomesheet and route-management pages would probably make more sense than all that text of those pages.

I also do not understand what is you motive to post in such über negative way. You have in your mind calculated that profit will be small. But you have not even kept the airline going till that point to see if you even counted properly? And you also post in a negative way towards people giving you a helping hand here - and the data you posted is not really enough to tell the key facts of the airline and its profitability.

I believe you should have a bit more patience in that, and also answer the questions and post more data.

[RushmoreAir]

ok. i do it another way:
i will bancrupt 10 times more and maybe then i'll understand the game.
i have enough credits for now.......

Like swiftus said, it is normal to b'rupt at the beginning.  I bankrupted 4 times before I got an airline that didn't lose money, and even that one was barely break-even.  It took me a month or two to get used to the system.  Also, like Sami said, ATB is a harder game than BW.  It just is.  The new hub system makes it that much harder.  Even I am struggling in MT2, but I held on, and within a few game months, I started making money.  It says in the description that ATB is harder than Beginners World.  You currently aren't in a Beginners World game, and unfortunately now you can't be in one since you joined an advanced game.  But if you want to make a profit right off the bat, maybe you should join an "easy" game as opposed to a "medium" one.

If you need help, lots of experienced players are willing to help.  Just send a personal message to a few.  At least one will probably give some really sweet information and tips.

[THI]

ok.
i just have to understand this game. it is just a game, i have to understand this.

but the David International crash made me really become an idiot.......
so i try it now again. i will see if my new concept works

when i was angry it was not against any person. just against the game engine 
so, i hope i will do well........

nice evening for all

[Talentz]

With your new airline in JNB, I would stay away from competition all together. There has to be as least 1 route that DC-10 can fly without bumping into someone. I highly doubt every route is taken considering the size of your competition.

Your first is ok... theres some fat left on the route for you to have... but there's more steak on the plate if you look elsewhere.



Good luck and have fun.



Talentz

[alexgv1]

Yeah I bankrupted on my first proper game world DOTM... 4 times so I lost about 10 credits.

But I think that's normal. I made the mistakes there that helped me to learn how to make my airline successful.

I joined midway in MT#1 and made (what I would call) a successful airline and started ATB from the start and am still here 

You will find your airlines get better and more profitable as you play more game worlds or even before with new airlines.

You will learn about the game engine better by playing and seeing what works for you, and seeing what works for others on the forum.

Good luck with your new airline, I'm sure plenty of people will help you if you need ask anything.

[Sami]

Yeah I bankrupted on my first proper game world DOTM... 4 times so I lost about 10 credits.

4 restarts are actually free, after that number you need to rejoin the game world to get another 4 starts again.

[alexgv1]

4 restarts are actually free, after that number you need to rejoin the game world to get another 4 starts again.

That's what I meant, couldn't remember exactly. I think that is completely fair, don't get me wrong, didn't expect so many second chances. They really added value for money for newbs.

I still enjoyed several in game years with those credits. Just learnt from my mistakes and went to another game world a while later.