New Fleet Commonality feedback

[Sami]

Please use this thread for feedback on the updated Fleet Commonality features.

View details of the update here: https://feedback.airwaysim.com/changelog/updates-15

There is still a bit of work in progress since the User Interface will be changed to group aircraft and engines on own "tabs" to avoid long scrolling, and to add a "commonality calculator" to the page. Additionally the "partial commonality" benefits for operating similar manufacturers and similar fleet types will be introduced with the next update.

The plan is to fully finalize this feature's update to v.2.0 and then move on to other things (i.e. not to re-visit this feature after that anymore with any minor updates).

[Sami]

Update #1

- Tabbed page format added to the Commonality page.

[Sami]

Update #2

- Partial commonality bonus for using aircraft fleets from the same manufacturer is added (2% bonus in costs per shared fleet). (similar coming to engines later)

[DanDan]

"Another notable change for realism is that all your aircraft in operational state ( = even the ones with no routes) count towards the commonality costs (since the costs for having the ability to operate the aircraft naturally start when the aircraft is in your possession). Aircraft in long-term storage are still free of all commonality related costs."


Does this mean, that fleets of planes one is not using at all but just buying for selling & trading are increasing the fleet count??? That would make things really uncomfortable...

[JumboShrimp]

It would be nice to have totals.

Total for all fleet types, Totals for all engine types and than also Grand total.

Also, it would be good to have this permanent maintenance on a separate line on the income statement from A/B/C/D checks.  Maybe one of those expandable things where you can drill in.

Ideally:
+ maintenance
 | recurring maintenance
 + A/B/C/D checks
  | A Checks
  | B Checks
  | C Checks
  | D Checks

[Sami]

Does this mean, that fleets of planes one is not using at all but just buying for selling & trading are increasing the fleet count??? That would make things really uncomfortable...

Counts only if plane is in operational status, i.e. available for scheduling.

[Sami]

Update #3

- Partial commonality bonus for using engines from the same manufacturer's engine group is added (2% bonus in costs per shared engine group).

- Fleet size bonus for engines added; Begins with a 1% discount at the 10th engine of the same type, and caps at a 20% discount by 200 engines.

[Sami]

Update #4

- Partial aircraft model commonality bonus added (this is a big update!) ==> Now we can "combine" fleets with different specifications in performance into one or similar cost-groups. Such as B757 and B767.

 - The "commonality matrix" is still being built, and how the figures scale will need more tuning.

 - But basically you will have a bonus on fixed maint costs and crew training. Admin costs are not covered by this bonus. The bonus can range from 5 to 75% reduction in costs. The partial bonuses cover mostly only the modern models but there are a few older ones like Tu-104/124.

More details and documentation will follow later on.

[Sami]

Update #5

Manual page updated to reflect these updates: https://manual.airwaysim.com/simulation-documentation/fleet-commonality

[Sami]

btw. Would like to hear opinions on the Partial Commonality, and which models should be included there and why.

We can have bonus for Training and Maintenance costs (with varying percentage).

Currently we have:

A300/A310 ↔ A330/A340 
A318/A319/A320/A321 ↔ A330/A340 
A318/A319/A320/A321 ↔ A350 
A330/A340 ↔ A350 
737-100/200 ↔ 737-300/400/500 
737-100/200 ↔ 737NG/MAX 
737-300/400/500 ↔ 737NG/MAX 
757 ↔ 767 
747-100/200/300 ↔ 747-400/-8 
777 ↔ 787 
DHC-8-100/-200/-300 ↔ Dash 8 Q400 
Saab 2000 ↔ Saab 340 
Tu-104 ↔ Tu-124 
Tu-104 ↔ Tu-110 
DC-9 ↔ MD-80/90/B717 
Il-86 ↔ Il-96 
BAe ATP ↔ HS748

The bonus can be from 5% to 50% (maint/train defined separately).

Note that manufacturer similarity bonus is different and counted automatically.


Any other fleet groups that should share a similarity bonus?

[Pilot Jeb]

Any other fleet groups that should share a similarity bonus?

Useless information dump:

I don't actually know much about it, but aren't the 707, 727, and 737 all based on the exact same fuselage? I don't know if that would constitute some commonality between them, but I'm assuming Boeing did this in the past to save money on R&D costs, and production/tooling.

The 727 and 707 also have identical flight decks if I recall right.

The 757 came from the 7N7 which started as the 727-400. How much commonality that meant the original had by the end? I'm not sure.

The 767 and 777 share similar noses/front sections. Saved money when Boeing was designing them. This probably is a tiny bit of similarity, and not worth including as commonality. Just noting if some know more on that front.

Fokker 100 was a stretched version of the F28. Could have some commonality between those two, beyond just manufacturer.

EMB-120 is basically an enlarged EMB-110. Just with pressurization.


If you can't tell, I really like this change. Having the ability for more fleet types to be "included" is a great change. It means we might see people experimenting with extra fleets that share large amounts of commonality with their major fleets; without taking a massive loss to profits. Anything to get people to break off from the status quo and have fun experimenting with fleet types is a plus, to me.

This is probably a change that might have to be implemented at an entirely different time, but could cargo aircraft get some sort of commonality? Even if they are different manufactures and sizes? Similar to the change being implemented, but only between cargo specific fleets. That might give people an incentive to create an "all cargo" airline. One that could use MD-11s all the way down to ATRs without sacrificing profits. Sort of like a modern take on FedEx or UPS and their subsidiaries.

[Sami]

- 707 vs 727 added

- 767 vs 777 is covered by 5% manufacturer bonus, I think that's enough since they are different designs to begin with and rather different cockpits?  (767-400ER is already close, but can't wrap whole 767 under it because of -400ER)

- F28 vs F100 added

- But I disagree on EMB-110 vs EMB-120, it's a different plane all-together and new design (from what I know at least?). ERJ-145 shares the fuselage's basic diameters with EMB-120 though but it is also a really different plane.

[lumberguy5]

Will manufacturer bonuses follow the mergers and buyouts?

Douglas into Mcdonnell Douglas into Boeing for example.

While buying parts from the factory is expensive I assume that Airbus will still make Bombardier commercial parts and Boeing will support the old 707s.

[Sami]

Will manufacturer bonuses follow the mergers and buyouts?

No, it's simply based on the manufacturer name (/ id number) which is static.

[luke02]

I have a further suggestion: the A350 and a380?

Etihad pilots are allowed to fly on both aircraft types. Source: https://www.airwaysmag.com/legacy-posts/etihad-pilots-certified-to-fly-both-a350-and-a380

I do think it is still the only airline, but maybe it can be added with a small bonus.

And something a little of topic, a year ago there was a page which listed all aircraft models in game, but it does't work/isn't available anymore, will this come back? And any plans for new aircrafts in the game?

Thnx for your hard work, really like this new commonality page!

[Pilot Jeb]

- 707 vs 727 added

- 767 vs 777 is covered by 5% manufacturer bonus, I think that's enough since they are different designs to begin with and rather different cockpits?  (767-400ER is already close, but can't wrap whole 767 under it because of -400ER)

- F28 vs F100 added

- But I disagree on EMB-110 vs EMB-120, it's a different plane all-together and new design (from what I know at least?). ERJ-145 shares the fuselage's basic diameters with EMB-120 though but it is also a really different plane.

I think the 767 vs 777 with the 5% manufacturer is plenty good. It's a tough one to call, so that's easily plenty.

And I'm not confident either on the two EMBs. I always thought the 120 was "supposed" to be an enlarged 110 with pressurization, but that's word of mouth stuff.

Didn't know the 120 and ERJ were similar though. Could be fun to have a little more bonus between those two for smaller countries? Then smaller country based airlines can have a more diverse medium/small fleet.

[Cedric3108]

I have a further suggestion: the A350 and a380?

Etihad pilots are allowed to fly on both aircraft types. Source: https://www.airwaysmag.com/legacy-posts/etihad-pilots-certified-to-fly-both-a350-and-a380

I do think it is still the only airline, but maybe it can be added with a small bonus.

Actually Lufthansa has many of their pilots in MUC rated on both types simultaniously as well.

[Fisher970]

btw. Would like to hear opinions on the Partial Commonality, and which models should be included there and why.

....

Any other fleet groups that should share a similarity bonus?

de Havilland Comet & Sud Aviation Caravelle - Sud Aviation worked a licensing deal with de Havilland to use the Comet's nose area and cockpit layout.

Piper PA-31 & PA-42 - even though no one uses them

DC6 & DC7 share a common type rating maybe DC4 in there too?

[Sami]

Update #6

- Commonality Calculator is now added.

- Added minor partial bonuses for A380 vs A350/A330+A340, B767 vs B777, PA-31 vs PA-42 and DC-6 vs DC-7.


This feature is now complete. Rollout to all other existing games starts soon.

[chwatuva]

This is great, especially the commonality calculator.

I played around with the calculator in the Age of Flight.  Seems like the calculator can only be used to figure commonality costs for aircraft that are currently flying.  Would it be possible to add all types that are currently available for order?  B707s and Bristol Brittanias, for instance, can be ordered but since they aren't flying in this game world, you can't see how adding one of these fleets would impact your commonality.