Mass buy/store AC to block competition?

[Mr.HP]

I'm writing to raise an issue about mass buying and storing AC not with intention of flying, or transiting fleet, but with perhaps intention of blocking other airlines from getting those AC from UM. If it is like that, what do you guys think of those action/ strategy?

IMO, its similar to the action of taking Mon and Fri slots in LHR to prevent others from taking the whole slot set. It may or may not violate the rules, but its clearly bad sportmanship

I see many asked for game world that have all hard limit removed, but this situation is the kind of barrier that limit others from growing, and therefore, not much different from the hard limit, or even worse because its only affect certain players

I dont have a good solution for it, because theres no way of proving the intention, and the solution will probably leads to another issue, so im just calling for fair play, especially if you are well known players/ alliances

HP

[Sami]

Where have you seen such issue? And what made you think the planes are not intended for use / lease?

[groundbum2]

next you'll be asking airlines not to put more than one daily service on a route as it's "bad sportsmanship". It's a competitive game... Or not to put prices up as it's "bad sportsmanship" or not put FC seats in as, yes, "bad sportsmanship".

Simon

[Amelie090904]

I'm writing to raise an issue about mass buying and storing AC not with intention of flying, or transiting fleet, but with perhaps intention of blocking other airlines from getting those AC from UM. If it is like that, what do you guys think of those action/ strategy?

IMO, its similar to the action of taking Mon and Fri slots in LHR to prevent others from taking the whole slot set. It may or may not violate the rules, but its clearly bad sportmanship

I see many asked for game world that have all hard limit removed, but this situation is the kind of barrier that limit others from growing, and therefore, not much different from the hard limit, or even worse because its only affect certain players

I dont have a good solution for it, because theres no way of proving the intention, and the solution will probably leads to another issue, so im just calling for fair play, especially if you are well known players/ alliances

HP

Hi HP,

You are probably referring to me in HatF as I noticed you are leasing out 737s to our "mutual friend" in LAX. Let me explain my point of view and I am sure you will see that there is nothing wrong with it.

I noticed that our "friend" in LAX has a really old fleet consisting of mostly 737 and that he has not enough money to order them new from the manufacturer. I came up with the idea to dry out the used market. Not to store the planes. Not to scrap the planes. Not to let them sit idle. That would all be against the rules. Instead, I put them back on the used market for max price. Capitalist swine? Sure. Legitimate? Yes.

If you check the planes that are currently available, I have never stored them and put them back for sale as soon as I could. The planes that are in storage are my own ones that I ordered myself from the manufacturer. Those were leased out to an alliance partner until very recently. I have not gotten those from the used market and I can do to them whatever I want. Why I don't put them on the UM as well? Simply because maintenance checks expired and they are just too old to be even relevant anymore (30+ years for the most part).

In fact, I am actually helping our "mutual friend". How? I am preserving the 737-300 and 737-400. The AI brokers tend to scrap them. They also often convert them to 737-300F and 737-400F. So in fact he should be thankful that I am giving him the chance to get the planes he needs.

Best,
André

[Mr.HP]

Where have you seen such issue? And what made you think the planes are not intended for use / lease?

Cause they were all listed back to the UM as sell only. I wouldnt say so if they were up as both lease and sell

And André also admitted he didnt intend to fly or lease those

Hi HP,

You are probably referring to me in HatF as I noticed you are leasing out 737s to our "mutual friend" in LAX. Let me explain my point of view and I am sure you will see that there is nothing wrong with it.

I noticed that our "friend" in LAX has a really old fleet consisting of mostly 737 and that he has not enough money to order them new from the manufacturer. I came up with the idea to dry out the used market. Not to store the planes. Not to scrap the planes. Not to let them sit idle. That would all be against the rules. Instead, I put them back on the used market for max price. Capitalist swine? Sure. Legitimate? Yes.

If you check the planes that are currently available, I have never stored them and put them back for sale as soon as I could. The planes that are in storage are my own ones that I ordered myself from the manufacturer. Those were leased out to an alliance partner until very recently. I have not gotten those from the used market and I can do to them whatever I want. Why I don't put them on the UM as well? Simply because maintenance checks expired and they are just too old to be even relevant anymore (30+ years for the most part).

In fact, I am actually helping our "mutual friend". How? I am preserving the 737-300 and 737-400. The AI brokers tend to scrap them. They also often convert them to 737-300F and 737-400F. So in fact he should be thankful that I am giving him the chance to get the planes he needs.

Best,
André

[Amelie090904]

So? Just trying my luck as a broker. I never lease out to non-alliance partners. Just not worth it. Prefer cash.

[schro]

There's also cases where the sale price of planes from brokers is less than the scrap value.. so... there's money to be made in buying for scrap...

[Jake]

Cause they were all listed back to the UM as sell only. I wouldnt say so if they were up as both lease and sell

And André also admitted he didnt intend to fly or lease those

I have done with this both the B737NG's and the A320's to drive up the price on several occasions myself, literally empty the market for weeks on end and list everything back later on in a a huge batch. This might be the first time you've seen it but it happens way more often than you notice 

[swiftus27]

https://youtu.be/hn1VxaMEjRU

[MikeS]

I came up with the idea to dry out the used market. Not to store the planes. Not to scrap the planes. Not to let them sit idle. That would all be against the rules. Instead, I put them back on the used market for max price. Capitalist swine? Sure. Legitimate? Yes.

Damn, I never seem to notice when these butchering tactics are going on! It's probably against the spirit of the game, using superior cash flow to manipulate the used market. Frankly though, it is a competitive game and I wish we had more tools to "compete" for market share. Players become more creative and I can't blame them.
Cool move, I must say! 

Mike

[Aero]

Hi HP,

You are probably referring to me in HatF as I noticed you are leasing out 737s to our "mutual friend" in LAX. Let me explain my point of view and I am sure you will see that there is nothing wrong with it.

I noticed that our "friend" in LAX has a really old fleet consisting of mostly 737 and that he has not enough money to order them new from the manufacturer. I came up with the idea to dry out the used market. Not to store the planes. Not to scrap the planes. Not to let them sit idle. That would all be against the rules. Instead, I put them back on the used market for max price. Capitalist swine? Sure. Legitimate? Yes.

If you check the planes that are currently available, I have never stored them and put them back for sale as soon as I could. The planes that are in storage are my own ones that I ordered myself from the manufacturer. Those were leased out to an alliance partner until very recently. I have not gotten those from the used market and I can do to them whatever I want. Why I don't put them on the UM as well? Simply because maintenance checks expired and they are just too old to be even relevant anymore (30+ years for the most part).

In fact, I am actually helping our "mutual friend". How? I am preserving the 737-300 and 737-400. The AI brokers tend to scrap them. They also often convert them to 737-300F and 737-400F. So in fact he should be thankful that I am giving him the chance to get the planes he needs.

Best,
André

Now is high season as Andre will buy your B737-300 and 400 you receive more then scrap them.
Same for A320 series planes.

If anyone has a MD 80 fleet they prefer to sell instead of scrap.
I can help in boast the price 

[Amelie090904]

Now is high season as Andre will buy your B737-300 and 400 you receive more then scrap them.
Same for A320 series planes.

If anyone has a MD 80 fleet they prefer to sell instead of scrap.
I can help in boast the price 

Sorry, I don't understand what you wanted to say.

@HP: I would also add lease options, if the game offered to add a "minimum lease period". There is only a "maximum lease period" as of now. I don't fancy leasing them out for 0.5 years only. I'd like them to be leased at least for a couple of years and/or until the next D-Check. Unfortunately, the game does not have the feature of a "minimum lease period".

[Mr.HP]

So? Just trying my luck as a broker. I never lease out to non-alliance partners. Just not worth it. Prefer cash.

Like i said, it may not against rules, but low sportmanship, and can be seen as bullying

Anyway, i said what i have to say

HP

[swiftus27]

Like i said, it may not against rules, but low sportmanship, and can be seen as bullying

Anyway, i said what i have to say

HP

It's bullying to buy up the entire um of a certain model.  It's unsporting and unfair

However it is okay and altruistic to buy at market and lease at minimum prices.   

While it may be uncool, isn't it a huge double standard?

[gazzz0x2z]

In current HaTF, I did buy hundreds of 321s I didn't have use for. Not yet. Most of them I did outlease for 8 years max (after 3 years in the desert) to alliance friends, and will take them back much later for 321F conversion, when my 204CE will get old.

IMHO, that's also a perfectly legit use. I could even have kept them in the desert for 10 years, before converting and using. I'm gonna need them badly. Just not now, 321F conversion is not yet available. Of course, it keeps the price of new 321s higher, but that's life. I'll actually need those frames.

[Jake]

In current HaTF, I did buy hundreds of 321s I didn't have use for. Not yet. Most of them I did outlease for 8 years max (after 3 years in the desert) to alliance friends, and will take them back much later for 321F conversion, when my 204CE will get old.

IMHO, that's also a perfectly legit use. I could even have kept them in the desert for 10 years, before converting and using. I'm gonna need them badly. Just not now, 321F conversion is not yet available. Of course, it keeps the price of new 321s higher, but that's life. I'll actually need those frames

This also applies to planes like the pax B744’s that the UM is being emptied for in AG, only 4 years left till BCF conversions open.

Such is life, if everyone got the plane they wanted every time then this game would be boring as f…

[Cornishman]

If you want to make a new rule to counter what is described in this thread, seems you'd have to rule it by: "We can't tolerate what people might be thinking - so we can't allow that".... hmmmm .... just like what's going on in the real world isn't it?  Sound a bit too much like a "snowflake / woke culture" suggestion so I for one don't want to see any of that sort of thought-police culture descending into our game of AWS too. 

This is a game! You might survive - you might not. That's what makes it fun (remember that... "fun"  ... it's becoming a bit of a rarer commodity these-days). If folk stopped worrying so much of what other people are doing and just bloody well got on with their own game / real lives - so much the better we all might be. I grew up in the "school of hard knocks" if you get bashed to the ground, get up, learn some new tricks and work out a new way to win.