(comments) AirwaySim v.1.3 news, previews & info

[JumboShrimp]

Again, slots taken by players at the detriment of others, so the only way to ensure availability is by a gradual release of slots to give everyone a fair shot.

Most players start on Day one so they have the same shot.  The problem with the slot constrained airports is that there usually more demand than there are slots to serve that demand.  So the situation is already bad.  I don't know what purpose it serves to make things twice as bad by cutting the slot supply by half.

The gradual slot release does not really serve late starters.  If someone starts a week (6 game months) late, he is twice as screwed since by the time he is has aircraft arriving in quantity (6 months later, one game year into the game) the airport is already locked.  As opposed to airport being locked a year or 2 later if the game world started with the full supply of slots.

It goes back again to giving each player an exclusive slot pool via terminals.  It's like democracy--it's a terrible system, but it's the best we've got.

I saw it in the other thread.  It is an interesting idea.  I have not really evaluate the pros and cons of it to add an intelligent comment on it.

It may be a start of other "facilities" such as potentially player owned maintenance facility, cargo facilities etc...

[JumboShrimp]

Sorry guys but Sami wrote this:
How can this be such terrible?
This is not killing the leading horse, this is trying to avoid slot hogging that is simply unfair.

It also has a side effect on a player who waits for the weekend to schedule all the aircraft he received during the seek.  He would be penalized for potentially buying the same number of slots another player buys gradually throughout the week...

[loziobiz]

Uhm, but in a slot restricted airport this is just impossible to do even now as you simply have no slot to buy in the week end even if you can afford it

[Maarten Otto]

Right, so if you need 4 slots a day for your aircraft to be financially viable then your called a slot hogger. The fact that this is done by a 30 seater with the SAME amount of staff needed (minus cabin crew) as for a A380 doesn't count. If I would be slot hogging I would have operated 10 daily flights between Glasgow and Luton. As I recal correctly I operate 4 or 5 return flights a day. So that is 120 to 150 seats... around 25% of the daily demand.   Yes, that is called slot hogging.

[stevecree]

Sorry guys but Sami wrote this:
How can this be such terrible?
This is not killing the leading horse, this is trying to avoid slot hogging that is simply unfair.

This was after Sami toned down his initial changes.  Still think this should not be done mid game, and that slot charges should be the same for everyone though !

[loziobiz]

Right, so if you need 4 slots a day for your aircraft to be financially viable then your called a slot hogger. The fact that this is done by a 30 seater with the SAME amount of staff needed (minus cabin crew) as for a A380 doesn't count. If I would be slot hogging I would have operated 10 daily flights between Glasgow and Luton. As I recal correctly I operate 4 or 5 return flights a day. So that is 120 to 150 seats... around 25% of the daily demand.   Yes, that is called slot hogging.

Uhm, no, and I guess that the new model is not hurting you with just 4 slots per day.
This new model is intended to avoid 100 slots+ grabbing  repeated for nearby days.
This is what I call hogging and this is not a management skill, it's exactly the opposite. It's a leading horse that takes the lead after having sealed the cages of the other horses.

[loziobiz]

This was after Sami toned down his initial changes.  Still think this should not be done mid game, and that slot charges should be the same for everyone though !

Yes but there have been many more posts as if he had not written at all.
I agree on not changing rules in game.

[Jona L.]

With this new slots cost, I'd like to say:

one guy down in MT....

[stevecree]

I don't see this as a LOL Jona !!   Would you have ordered this if these changes were planned and announced in advance ?  I am sure you wouldn't, hence why changes like made today cannot possibly me made mid-game.  Maybe you can PM Sami and he can cancel this order for you and get your money back.  Can you see anyone at large airports flying this type anymore ?

[Jona L.]

I don't see this as a LOL Jona !!   Would you have ordered this if these changes were planned and announced in advance ?  I am sure you wouldn't, hence why changes like made today cannot possibly me made mid-game.  Maybe you can PM Sami and he can cancel this order for you and get your money back.  Can you see anyone at large airports flying this type anymore ?

LOL I'm not the poor guy having done that. Just someone else I saw, who probably hasn't seen the announcement.

[stevecree]

LOL I'm not the poor guy having done that. Just someone else I saw, who probably hasn't seen the announcement.

Ahhhhhh....and Doooooooh !!!

[loziobiz]

If he can schedule new planes once delivered (3-4 set every 2 weeks?) I don't see how the new system can hurt him.

[[ATA] Sunbao]

If he can schedule new planes once delivered (3-4 set every 2 weeks?) I don't see how the new system can hurt him.

Yeah, will not hurt him at all. Its not like he gets 20 planes at one time, and then needs to pay the price slot hoggers does.

[Jona L.]

If you guys properly read what sami wrote, you will notice he spoke of MONTHS not WEEKS.

So if you get 4 of those planes in 2 mths that is 12-20 slot sets in 2 months, or as a matter of fact costs in high 8 digits if not 9 digits in total. and with 20 of those coming, presumably within one year, he'll be incurring costs nearing the BILLION dollars for slots, and I don't think an airline with 20ish 320s can support that for scheduling ATRS which are already hard to get a return on in the first place.

[loziobiz]

I read what Sami wrote but I still think that numbers are not what you have understood.
But I should miss something of course.

[Jona L.]

So, as refered by sami in the other topic, discussion shall continue here.

So why the hell does the service provider not listen to the customers? I bought (and I know of quite a few people who did the same) 50 credits just about 2 weeks ago, and honestly I feel completely screwed over. This has just managed to nearly ruin a perfectly fine running game for me.

To get constructive:

There is this rudimentary programming thing called WINLogo which I somehow still remember from school years ago. You could tell it "random number 1 10" and it will give you a (truly) random number in the defined area. WINLogo is a year old crappy program, so I wonder why the AWS programming system cannot work like that. Just give the slot release part the tag "release slots in [days] RANDOM 200-400" (or whatever period is wished for)?

With a truly random system no one could figure out how slots are released (as it must have happened now as far as I understand the fuzz). And in EVERY MMOG the users with the most online time have the biggest advantages, AWS is and can technically not be an exception to this. If you have no time to sit at the computer to get slots in LHR, don't play from LHR. Be happy with the fact that the guy who does has no job or no GF or no real life, but you do.

I still think the idea is BS to try to limit this by adding ridiculous fees. Mostly because those airlines hogging the slots already make enough cash to be able to afford the slot release dates every year or whatever.

To go to another topic:

Sami, I don't understand why you shut down my vote, I haven't made it to insult someone, and I have been polite and serious about it. It was there to get a feedback to you, and the community, on how we think about this. As I said above, I just payed another 20€ for this, as I did many times before in the past years, and I think as a customer we deserve at least some rights of knowing these changes, and also the ability to decide if we like it, or not. If or if not you listen to us is a whole different thing, just at least give us the option to decide if we want this stuff or not.
You should announce these changes before a new game, and not change them mid-term, since people have strategies worked out, on how to tackle the task of running their airline, and quite many have been badly affected by this, while they didn't even mean to malpractice the slot system. I for myself am less affected, since my strategy does not solely base on slot control, still I feel that I have a responsibility towards those who are, and I honor it.

I know AWS is "your baby", your hobby project, into which you devote a lot of free time, and you offer it to the public, which is great. But since you charge money for it, you cannot fully ignore the demands of the people helping you fund this project.

I hope you understand, and don't ban me for telling you my honest thoughts, as I have (tried) to stay as polite as possible.

Have a good day all of you.

cheers,
Jona L.

P.S. Sami, please ponder what I said, and don't dismiss it as an annoying rant from the usual troublemaker.

[stevecree]

Jona, very well written, and I hope Sami does not take it the wrong way.

I can add that the overwhelming view from our entire alliance of 25 airlines echos exactly what you say.  Nobody within Elite has stated any support for the changes,

None of us signed up for a game where this would happen.  Your customers Sami, in the main, are totally against this, and only a handfull of airlines that have struggled getting slots will benefit in any way (but they too will also suffer the effects).  Is it really worth rocking the boat and upsetting so many customers so much for just a few to mildly benefit ?

I think this would be proved if a poll was run, hence why it has been closed, and what more evidence is needed than Elite and SC actually agreeing on something  

Please consider putting things back to how they were, and lets all get involved in thrashing out a new workable system that everyone will be happy with and can be implemented when the next game starts, as the unannounced introduction of this, and the knock on effects, are huge to many types of airlines in many ways in games that are already running.

[half]

Hi,

finaly i figgured out why my slots were so expensive. Would it not be better to make an formal announcemt into the game world first and give ppl a date so the word is spread and everyone knows it? I dont think of the 400ish players that change was known.

That you make constant changes to 1.3 is nice but this just catched me off guard.

I mean without reading the press release of CityLinQ i would have not knows this. Will try to find out how bad it is for me.

[Maarten Otto]

I mean without reading the press release of CityLinQ i would have not knows this. Will try to find out how bad it is for me.

CityLinQ just GROUNDED 3 aircraft. In the entire history of playing this game I have NEVER had to take such radical decisions.

[Jona L.]

Jona, very well written, and I hope Sami does not take it the wrong way.

Thanks, Steve, and I hope the same.

I can add that the overwhelming view from our entire alliance of 25 airlines echos exactly what you say.  Nobody within Elite has stated any support for the changes,

I can't really imagine any kind of airline or strategy that would actually benefit from this. I do however agree on the monopoly fees that have been adjusted, that is from my p.o.v. totally okay, just not the other part(s).

None of us signed up for a game where this would happen.  Your customers Sami, in the main, are totally against this, and only a handfull of airlines that have struggled getting slots will benefit in any way (but they too will also suffer the effects).  Is it really worth rocking the boat and upsetting so many customers so much for just a few to mildly benefit ?

That is a good question, to which I'd very much like to hear/read the answer.

I think this would be proved if a poll was run, hence why it has been closed, and what more evidence is needed than Elite and SC actually agreeing on something 

I can't figure what would actually be more proof of something gone wrong, if not the biggest rivals agreeing on it gone wrong. Well said, SAC, couldn't have said it better myself.

Please consider putting things back to how they were, and lets all get involved in thrashing out a new workable system that everyone will be happy with and can be implemented when the next game starts, as the unannounced introduction of this, and the knock on effects, are huge to many types of airlines in many ways in games that are already running.

I sign that petition.

cheers,
Jona L.