Small Airline hurt by Anti Monopoly rules

Started by Klcosta, November 21, 2012, 05:03:19 PM

Klcosta

If I am being unfairly targeted by the Anti Monopoly rules, I am a airline with 7000 weekly passenger these rules are supposed to help me. Is there anywhere I can go to challenge the decision??

Curse

I've started a bug report on this. Feel free to add an useful commentary with screenshots etc.

https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,44349.0.html

charger27

#2
Just now - routes that I have been flying for a long time have been flagged by this anti-monopoly warning.
These are routes I have made zero changes to... and am flying no more than one plane (aircraft unchanged) per day at most into.
Not sure what is going on, but the routes are nowhere near 200% capacity (which I read in another thread).
At worst, the aircraft may oversupply a route at 30%.

Update: I have now received a message saying I corrected the oversupply on 2 of the 16 flagged routes.
I never made a single change to either of those routes.

Sami

A part of the rules was changed slightly, and that is why you got the message.

Please see the manual here: https://www.airwaysim.com/game/Manual/General/Rules/#Competition

charger - part of the numbers of the automation checker were just adjusted to make a bit more sense, so that is why you get the "all clear" on the routes now. So feel free to ignore those but please still do check the messages (click on the globe icon on the messages) to view that you are not oversupplying any route.

Klcosta

I just got a notification that the route oversupply was corrected, I'm assuming that the change in the numbers helped or that my plea was heard. I did however go from having a pretty constant supply of passengers (50-60%) and now it has gone down dramatically is that normal or is it the game messing with the route due to my supposed breaking of the rules???

charger27

#5
Now a bunch of my routes have been closed and my planes are parked on the ground with gaps in the schedules!!
Why did you have to tinker with things during the game?!?!

I'm not going back over 80+ planes and try to reschedule.
Hopefully these routes will be restored by AWS.

1 plane 1 route 1 per day flight.
That's it.
WTF kind of oversupply is that?!

These are routes that have been flown since the game started.
No increases to capacity at all.
At worst, I have seen slow days where the plane is a little more than half full.

exchlbg

I´m afraid AWS is not restoring anything, but you can....now it is possible to limit the seats you offer, so you no longer go over 200%.

charger27

Quote from: exchlbg on November 23, 2012, 03:01:18 AM
I´m afraid AWS is not restoring anything, but you can....now it is possible to limit the seats you offer, so you no longer go over 200%.
I wasn't ever near 200% before... anywhere.
I thought that was clear... maybe not.
And no - I am not going to take hours and re-do my routes.

Funny how yesterday when these monopoly messages started I would get route warnings one minute, problem corrected the next... then the same routes warned again - then gaps.
Pretty whacked out system.
And a good way to wreck the game.

brique

Quote from: charger27 on November 23, 2012, 04:19:14 AM
I wasn't ever near 200% before... anywhere.
I thought that was clear... maybe not.
And no - I am not going to take hours and re-do my routes.

Funny how yesterday when these monopoly messages started I would get route warnings one minute, problem corrected the next... then the same routes warned again - then gaps.
Pretty whacked out system.
And a good way to wreck the game.


Seems obvious then that your routes were borderline 200% : and the usual demand fluctuations were bringing them in and out of the warning zone : I dont know what aircraft you are flying or the demand on your routes : but if its a thin route, it doesnt take a lot of movement for it to become vulnerable to over-supply : the demand you see on your route planning pages is not always accurate, as has been explained several times in the forums : accuracy depends on the efficiency of your staff : it can be + or- 30% in extreme cases ; the system, however, can see the 'true' demand figure and thats what it bases the warnings on : so, as you can see, lots of room for falling into over-supply on thin routes.

I dont know why you seem set against fixing the issue yourself with the seat-blocking function : start on your first route, fix if needed, click the next route link (top right hand corner in grey print) ; repeat ; how hard can that be? take the time to check demand (both ways) and adjust prices while you are at it.

yes, its a pain it happening mid-game : but the 'background' system applies to all worlds, I beleive, so its going to be mid-game somewhere whenever an update is made. Of course, Sami could just pull all the games, make the changes then start again one game at a time to get the gaps back again : sure that would be preferable?

charger27

#9
Quote from: brique on November 23, 2012, 04:34:50 AM
Seems obvious then that your routes were borderline 200% : and the usual demand fluctuations were bringing them in and out of the warning zone : I dont know what aircraft you are flying or the demand on your routes : but if its a thin route, it doesnt take a lot of movement for it to become vulnerable to over-supply : the demand you see on your route planning pages is not always accurate, as has been explained several times in the forums : accuracy depends on the efficiency of your staff : it can be + or- 30% in extreme cases ; the system, however, can see the 'true' demand figure and thats what it bases the warnings on : so, as you can see, lots of room for falling into over-supply on thin routes.

I dont know why you seem set against fixing the issue yourself with the seat-blocking function : start on your first route, fix if needed, click the next route link (top right hand corner in grey print) ; repeat ; how hard can that be? take the time to check demand (both ways) and adjust prices while you are at it.

yes, its a pain it happening mid-game : but the 'background' system applies to all worlds, I beleive, so its going to be mid-game somewhere whenever an update is made. Of course, Sami could just pull all the games, make the changes then start again one game at a time to get the gaps back again : sure that would be preferable?
It is overseas routes.
So... what should I fly 737's with fuel stops?!
Planned in is 1 ONE MD11 flight per day.

And you may think you have the answers... but you don't.
Tell me, what do you do if you have a 1 week block of a planned route - and not individual days?
Is the answer to restrict the seats down to the thinnest day, and then lose on 4 or 5 days that are dramatically better?

Am I going back and splitting routes on 50 or 60 planes?
Go back and re-plan routes that have been erased, only to have them eliminated again?
Not on your frickin life.
I don't have countless hours to spend in an online game, unlike some others.

I am going to let the last credits expire, and close it down.
If anyone wants a 1.5 billion dollar airline - let me know.
Now that it needs a pile of repair work thanks to AWS changing the parameters mid-game, I am done with it.

Mr.HP

Quote from: charger27 on November 23, 2012, 05:09:55 AM
Tell me, what do you do if you have a 1 week block of a planned route - and not individual days?
Is the answer to restrict the seats down to the thinnest day, and then lose on 4 or 5 days that are dramatically better?

Are you saying that by limiting the number of seats provided down to the thinnest day which is Saturday, you're going to lose opportunity to sell on busy day (Monday and Friday) ?

If Saturday has like 50 demand, then just limit your seats to about 90. I don't think Monday and Friday have more demand than 90

I know it's painful to manually fix the little things, but since you're operating 1 week block of planned route (1 route that fly everyday vs 7 routes that fly on 7 days, if I'm not mistaken), it's not too bad if you compare to someone with 7 day schedule

HP

Curse

I had to adjust about 10 routes in 7-day-schedules on A300-600R, overseas. And? What's the problem? It didn't took "hours". It might have taken 10 minutes while I watched House MD on the second screen.


If you tell which routes are affected in detail, I can tell you exactly what's the problem on your side.

Klcosta

Can I adjust my flight so that even if the plane has 65 seats available for that flight only we only offer 40 seats so that i don't go over???

Sami


brique

Quote from: charger27 on November 23, 2012, 05:09:55 AM
It is overseas routes.
So... what should I fly 737's with fuel stops?!
Planned in is 1 ONE MD11 flight per day.

And you may think you have the answers... but you don't.
Tell me, what do you do if you have a 1 week block of a planned route - and not individual days?
Is the answer to restrict the seats down to the thinnest day, and then lose on 4 or 5 days that are dramatically better?

Am I going back and splitting routes on 50 or 60 planes?
Go back and re-plan routes that have been erased, only to have them eliminated again?
Not on your frickin life.
I don't have countless hours to spend in an online game, unlike some others.

I am going to let the last credits expire, and close it down.
If anyone wants a 1.5 billion dollar airline - let me know.
Now that it needs a pile of repair work thanks to AWS changing the parameters mid-game, I am done with it.


No thanks, got a 1.5bil airline of my own : with no over-supply warnings ever issued on it ; and, tbh, it would be no big deal if there were : get real, adjusting a route with the seat-block function is a damn sight easier than fiddling with prices : open, enter number, save, done : if thats too much for you, then, imho, nothing will help.

cheerio.

brique

Quote from: Klcosta on November 23, 2012, 10:01:43 AM
Can I adjust my flight so that even if the plane has 65 seats available for that flight only we only offer 40 seats so that i don't go over???

yep, thats the way to resolve any potential problem on your route ; open route to edit : enter 40 in the seat block box, save : go have a coffee, your work is done :)

Klcosta


charger27

Quote from: brique on November 23, 2012, 10:46:49 AM
No thanks, got a 1.5bil airline of my own : with no over-supply warnings ever issued on it ; and, tbh, it would be no big deal if there were : get real, adjusting a route with the seat-block function is a damn sight easier than fiddling with prices : open, enter number, save, done : if thats too much for you, then, imho, nothing will help.
cheerio.
THAT isn't the time consuming issue I have.
Yes, adjusting seat totals is simple... but I have planes with gaps in schedules and absolutely no idea where those routes were flying in order to restore them.
So... trying to figure out the destinations that drop into the weekly schedule like a puzzle, or wiping the sched and starting again - are both time intensive.
My airline was ALWAYS first second or third in the ENTIRE game with aircraft usage... that's how tight I had things fit together.

Mr.HP

Quote from: charger27 on November 23, 2012, 02:53:29 PM
but I have planes with gaps in schedules and absolutely no idea where those routes were flying in order to restore them.

Oh, you meant your routes were shut down automatically and you don't know which one, at which time, flying to which places? I tend to have a spread sheet of all my 7 day schedule, so no big deal for me

Well, 24h notice is kind of short, really. But at least you still have the warning message, right? It still shows the destination, not the time though if the routes have been closed automatically already

brique


Yep, its a pain, that is true, trying to resurrect/reconstruct things : but if you have gone to the considerable effort of building a successful airline, and if its worth 1.5bil, then that is what it is, it would be a shame to BK it without making a stab at recovery.

where to start : 'route image' page will tell you what destinations are no longer served ( see 'last flown' date) : note them down: using 'open new route' to set-up a trial flight ; that will give you a total flight time/turnaround : write that beside the destination : go through your schedule page, see the time gaps between flights, then match that slot to one off your list ; create the route, schedule ; tick off your list : the more holes you fill, the easier it will become to match routes and gaps as each list gets smaller. check the demand levels too, you may have room for extra flights, you may need to seat block : if so, note that on your list as well, so you can go back later to see if it can tweaked better.

look for other clues, see if any routes are showing up in the notifications sub-section of route management : some may still be there but 'grounded' : some may be in your route management page as n/a due to lack of flight data.

Its maybe not a perfect solution but its the best I can offer.

Its also maybe a lesson for others, and for the future ; do a regular copy/paste of your route management pages to a txt file (or save the whole thing as a web page), just as a safety back-up.