small jets

[ljesnjak]

hi hi...
i have question for admins... 

is it somehow possible to add some small jets... u know... like my base is in some small/medium airport, and i would like to have some intercont. flights, but i cant cause average load is about 80ish persones, so... al 'big' aircaft are tooo big :/ and will only make minus, but if i could buy some like cessna citation or i don't know it would be ok
(i think so...)     

[Sigma]

With the way economics are handled here, in particular overhead costs, you can't make any money in AWS with planes under about 30 seats, so anything as small as a Citation would be worthless.

But there are lots of jets to choose from that can operate on 80pax demand pretty easily.  F70s, E-Jets, CRJs, or Saab 2000s, just to name a few.

[ljesnjak]

yes yes....
hmmm but they don't have range for flights over atlantic :/
do we pay same money for slots for all types of aircraft or do u pay more for large one? and i think u could make some money cause u would have only first class passengers...

p.s. sb20 is turbo-prop acf, not jet

[Sami]

We're modelling an airline business here, so that's why small business jets are not included. They are traditionally not part of normal airlines.

[ljesnjak]

huh ok... but can u make game a bit diferent so even if i have hub in some small/medium airport can have some rutes(profitable) to longdistance airports?!? like a conection flights -> LDZA -> LIML -> KJFK -> LIML -> LDZA??? is that posible? but not like it is now only for fuel stop but to pick up some pasengers? thx!
and sry if i am boring but i think that all playesr should say their opinion how to make game beter!

[swiftus27]

sounds like this player wants ABCBA routes back.

Where's Magic Carpet when you need him?

[ljesnjak]

hehe what? this game did have this option before? 
hmmm and what happened?

the game is coul, BUT you just CAN'T be as good with some medium airport, as someone at some like EDDF or sth... u know :/
and that's frustrating :/

[Maarten Otto]

Please search the forum, we have many, many discussions about this.

[ljesnjak]

discussion is good, but is there any chanse to change that?

[Jona L.]

discussion is good, but is there any chanse to change that?

Nie. I am sorry..
We had this ABCBA system for a long time (about 3 years if I am not wrong), but we now have bases, and that is the huge difference... no 2-leg routes no more, but therefor routes from different airports!

do skorog wijenia

sorry, mi hrvatski is nie dobrze, so I couldn't explain you in it... I just notice you are not too great in English (no offense) so I would like to ave done it in croatian...

Jona L.

[Sami]

We had this ABCBA system for a long time (about 3 years if I am not wrong), but we now have bases, and that is the huge difference... no 2-leg routes no more, but therefor routes from different airports!

I've stated before that the 4-leg routes will (probably ..) come back, but that is limited as-per-realworld to domestic (or intra-eu) sectors.

[jordanD]

It wouldn't be all that realistic without a total change in the game system either. Pretty much all outfits that operate those kinds of jets do it on an on demand basis. They fly where a particular customer wants to go that day for a fixed (per hour) cost. No customers? Aircraft doesn't fly. It just doesn't fit into the game model.

[JumboShrimp]

I've stated before that the 4-leg routes will (probably ..) come back, but that is limited as-per-realworld to domestic (or intra-eu) sectors.

I think, for game balance, it would be a bad idea.  Those who start at top airports would instantly double their market.

I think additional bases is the right direction to go - just needs some fine tuning.  And if at some point we have passenger being able to connect at those bases, ABCBA will be even less important.

[NorgeFly]

I think, for game balance, it would be a bad idea.  Those who start at top airports would instantly double their market.

I think additional bases is the right direction to go - just needs some fine tuning.  And if at some point we have passenger being able to connect at those bases, ABCBA will be even less important.

I disagree. Onward legs should certainly come back some day. But the constraints mentioned by Sami are essential to make sure we don't have Chinese airlines operating domestic flights in Poland etc. like we used to!

[Jona L.]

yeah, that was nice... i often did some US-Domestic from LHR

[Jps]

I think, for game balance, it would be a bad idea.  Those who start at top airports would instantly double their market.

I think additional bases is the right direction to go - just needs some fine tuning.  And if at some point we have passenger being able to connect at those bases, ABCBA will be even less important.

I agree.
The way I see this, is that those in big airports could fly to other big airports, and from there to the small ones, where as those in small ones can only fly to that 1 or 2 big airports and from there onwards; competing on the main routes of those based on big airports.
The big airlines would then have a clear advantage, because they have already established the big money making routes, and can then 'attack' the routes that are flown by smaller airlines with most likely higher CI and marketing capabilities.

[ljesnjak]

I think, for game balance, it would be a bad idea.  Those who start at top airports would instantly double their market.

I think additional bases is the right direction to go - just needs some fine tuning.  And if at some point we have passenger being able to connect at those bases, ABCBA will be even less important.

ok... but we can make that no one can start from top airports?? cause it's rly, BUT rly not same to start from Frankfurt or Belgrade or Prag... and demand on some longdistance route from Belgrade will never be big enough, unlike from Frankfurt or YFK....



p.s. sry for bad english
i understand it fully, but i suck at writing 

[JumboShrimp]

The bad thing with bases, as is, is that you can't start at small to medium sized airport, and then later, if you are profitable, and can afford to, open a base in one of the top airports, and even if you could, 70 aircraft limit would end up being very limiting.

Starting at a big airport is an advantage if you can survive the competition, and if you do survive, ability to fly ABCBA would only double the advantage.  If the top 20 airport has 2:1 advantage over the next tier, adding ABCBA would make it close to 4:1 advantage.

[d2031k]

I think the main thing to consider in all this is that once apron capacity is modeled a lot of the issues with slots and the dominance of the major hubs will disappear.  I'm really hoping that the stands are categorised, as in reality, so that a particular number of small, medium, large and very large stands are available at each airport.  This will stop slot hogging and make flying aircraft like 747s feasible at the largest airports, as it'll be the only way players can get sufficient capacity on sectors.

Even if someone can dominate an airport like LHR, the number of available stands and slots should hinder their dominance of the airport.  Their aircraft choices to suit the HQ e.g B747s/A380s are unlikely to be suitable for ABCBA sectors, so the carriers based at the largest airports could even suffer as airlines at smaller HQs can exploit the capacity at the larger airports using the ABCBA routings.

[ljesnjak]

I think the main thing to consider in all this is that once apron capacity is modeled a lot of the issues with slots and the dominance of the major hubs will disappear.  I'm really hoping that the stands are categorised, as in reality, so that a particular number of small, medium, large and very large stands are available at each airport.  This will stop slot hogging and make flying aircraft like 747s feasible at the largest airports, as it'll be the only way players can get sufficient capacity on sectors.

Even if someone can dominate an airport like LHR, the number of available stands and slots should hinder their dominance of the airport.  Their aircraft choices to suit the HQ e.g B747s/A380s are unlikely to be suitable for ABCBA sectors, so the carriers based at the largest airports could even suffer as airlines at smaller HQs can exploit the capacity at the larger airports using the ABCBA routings.

i second that...