UM oddity

[JumboShrimp]

I wonder if anyone noticed this:

During a death march of a fleet replacement in late stages of the game, with people using alarm clocks around the clock to work around the UM limitations, for months at the time....

Every time I wake up, or get to a computer to place an order for 2, when I am done and look at the game time (how soon I can get the third one), it always turns out to be like 0:40 <facepalm>

BTW, for any new players wondering what it is like playing 2000 aircraft airline.  Her it is:

1. Go to Used Market, buy 2 aircraft
2. Wait 30 minutes
3. Go to Used Market, buy 1 aircraft
4. wait 3 hours 30 minutes (set alarm clock if desperate)
5. Go back to step 1

You can do this for the last 6 to 10 months of the game....

[groundbum2]

I'm like an Olympic athlete with a honed perfect body that delivers a performance mere mortals can only dream off.

Set alarm to 03:16am(!) when playing DTM. Take just 2 minutes to wake up and get laptop logged in. 0318. Buy 2 planes. 0320 goes to 2nd day. Buy 1 plane. Set clock for 3 1/2 or 4 hours hence.

If AWS was an Olympic sport I'd be shooting for a gold. Followed by a month of sleeping through the night...zzz

Simon

[Amelie090904]

You can do this for the last 6 to 10 months of the game....

Just to clarify: Real months, not game months.

And yes. It's a lot of fun. Pure joy. Endless emotions, literally.

[JumboShrimp]

Yup, the mental endurance it takes to deal with the UM is something very few can muster.

[Talentz]

'That suicide is painless, it brings on many changes..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whhAg6bA3_o

Talentz

[LemonButt]

I think something could be done for "netting out" the UM take rate.  For example, I just ditched 100+ Tu204 to replace with MD11 in AG and am up against the UM limits in making that transition happen.  The fact I went -100 aircraft and looking to go +20 should accelerate my take rate.  So I think something could be done where you can only net 3 aircraft--if you're doing fleet replacement you can pick up 10 in one week if you're cancelling the leases and/or sell 10 aircraft that week (not list for sale, but actually sell).

[gazzz0x2z]

I think something could be done for "netting out" the UM take rate.  For example, I just ditched 100+ Tu204 to replace with MD11 in AG and am up against the UM limits in making that transition happen.  The fact I went -100 aircraft and looking to go +20 should accelerate my take rate.  So I think something could be done where you can only net 3 aircraft--if you're doing fleet replacement you can pick up 10 in one week if you're cancelling the leases and/or sell 10 aircraft that week (not list for sale, but actually sell).

+1000

or scrap.

[groundbum2]

the UM limit is there to stop big airlines squashing little airlines. But in the later, mature stages of a game, when fleet replacements are about 80% of the workload, there are very few new airlines joining the game.

My suggestion would be to keep the UM limits as they are for the first half of a game, then like OOB up them each year.

Simon

[JumboShrimp]

Anything would help.

- Instead of 3 aircraft in 8 days, > 3 aircraft in > 8 days, ideally being able to order all at the same time
- Relax the limit after 2-3 game years, when it is still serving its purpose.

Otherwise, with UM we are half way to hell*

* Hell = playing Travian to win

[tungstennedge]

@jumbo I completely agree, 3 per 8 days all at once would help a ton.

Also, these days Im more busy and relying solely on new AC orders to keep up, does anyone know whats the max size airline I could have if I used AC for 24 years?

[knobbygb]

I'm surprised this is a problem for people late in the game. Yes - at the start when every small delay in adding a few extra routes can exponentially affect you for years... but towards the last 10+ years of the game I'm USUALLY relying 100% on new aircraft, having so much money that it's not worth the effort to get up at 3am to save a mere $200M 

Having said that... I'm currently building a mostly cargo airline in Asia Challenge and A320F/A321F are only available from the used market so there isn't really much choice.  I have actually resorted to buying brand new ones and immediately converting them, just to save some time.  I'm confident I could buy 3 aircraft per 8 days for the last 5 years of the game and still use every one of them so it's a bit frantic.  3am alam calls have again become a thing...

Instead of 3 aircraft in 8 days, > 3 aircraft in > 8 days, ideally being able to order all at the same time

Sami, while you're at it, why not change it to actually be 3 a/c every SEVEN days as it was originally intended (according to the manual)? Yes, it's only a small change, but it would mean an possible extra 22 a/c per year, or 330 more a/c in one of these 15 year challenge games.

[gazzz0x2z]

In the same Asian Challenge Knobby Mentions, for reaching an acceptable growth on the cargo market, I was ordering TU204s continuously from the manufacturer... and I had a full supplier all this time as well.

I also went full TU204 because it was the only large cargo manufactured in the early stages of the game. It's clearly inferior to 321Fs, but it does the job. Netted me an unexpected level 2&3 russian achievement. But the point is : when you need either a quick replacement (replacing 400 F28s by CRJs within 4 years because the chapter 3 limit is nearing) or an explosive growth (which challenge games are), you always reach the limits of the UM.

For an explosive growth, the current rule is excellent. For replacement, as others said, it is catastrophic. I think planes private listed to you should be able to be purchased even if your staff is busy. Or something like that.

[Amelie090904]

I'm surprised this is a problem for people late in the game. Yes - at the start when every small delay in adding a few extra routes can exponentially affect you for years... but towards the last 10+ years of the game I'm USUALLY relying 100% on new aircraft, having so much money that it's not worth the effort to get up at 3am to save a mere $200M 

The problem is that you simply don't get enough aircraft quickly enough with your own orders and that you will need a couple of suppliers (alliance mates usually). Those suppliers list the planes to you privately on the UM. Lets say you need 500 A321s. You order 100 on your own and then 400 from 4 suppliers or so...and you can get only 3 of them per game week...

[JumboShrimp]

@jumbo I completely agree, 3 per 8 days all at once would help a ton.

Also, these days Im more busy and relying solely on new AC orders to keep up, does anyone know whats the max size airline I could have if I used AC for 24 years?

Relying strictly on new orders?

That depends on the lines.  Some lines have delivery rates of about 1.5 per month (mostly very large), most of the large aircraft are in 2.5 per month range, but some may go up to 3 or 4 per month under some conditions.

If you take average / optimistic of 2.5 per month delivery rate, that is 30 per year.

So 3 lines x 24 years x 30 per year = 2180

That is more than enough to build a large airline.  The problem is transitions - where things break down and you need to rely on UM.

[JumboShrimp]

For an explosive growth, the current rule is excellent. For replacement, as others said, it is catastrophic. I think planes private listed to you should be able to be purchased even if your staff is busy. Or something like that.

That would probably be the easiest to implement, and help large fleet transitions, where the current system comes up short.

[LemonButt]

Let's be honest here though... The only reason any of this matters is because fleet commonality is broken.  If you fix that, you fix the transition issue.

[JumboShrimp]

Let's be honest here though... The only reason any of this matters is because fleet commonality is broken.  If you fix that, you fix the transition issue.

Rethinking commonality is a project with large scope.

Relaxing some of the limitations of UM that are problematic (and counter productive) in late game is a very small scope project.

[gazzz0x2z]

Let's be honest here though... The only reason any of this matters is because fleet commonality is broken.  If you fix that, you fix the transition issue.

I am probably the only elder here to think that nope, the commonality systemy is not broken. But I insist : it does its job, and forces you to choose a strategy. UM limit is another beast. It's mandatory to have some kind of anti-spam(in the sense : spamming new planes early in the game) system. But it outlives its usefulness, and then becomes a useless chore in the late parts of the game.

[MuzhikRB]

These were discussed hundreds time.

3 acs per week is good limit.
Just allow to buy as much privat listed as you can afford and let them arrive at current 3 ac/w rate.
Just let us sleep. Its useless part of gameplay

[LemonButt]

Commonality isn't broken in that it limits your fleets, but if it takes you 15 years to transition it wouldn't matter if you didn't have the 4+ fleet penalty.  IRL airlines will take 10+ years to do a large fleet replacement but have sunk costs and don't have the penalties like we do in the game, which is the real issue IMO.