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Author Topic: Opening a second airport  (Read 1758 times)

Offline smiller

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Opening a second airport
« on: February 18, 2020, 01:25:08 PM »
I haven't been playing long but it appears I have used up most of my smaller airports for fillers, meaning almost all show no open demand. I stumbled on the fact that I can open a second airport. My question is am I better off with a larger airport with 2 or 3 others working that same airport or with a smaller demand airport with 1 or no other people competing? Meaning like a 3/4 level with 2 or 3 players already operating there as opposed to a 3/3 with one player or a 3/2 with zero players.

Thanks.

Online groundbum2

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Re: Opening a second airport
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2020, 01:52:10 PM »
there's no exact answer, but it's generally better to dominate an airport than be the one that gets squashed!

Here's what I look at;
who else is there already. Are they any good? Are they maxed out of base? Are they taking this airport seriously?
How much demand is there still be had from this airport, ie empty/underserved routes
Do the airport routes fit my fleet plans, ie SH, LH, puddle jumpers etc etc

Generally if being super competitive you want to dominate your home airport before you expand.

The cost of opening another base is negligible for small and medium size, but large (3) is a huge jump from the cost of (2). (4) is then a small step up from (3).

Simon

Offline smiller

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Re: Opening a second airport
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2020, 02:14:01 PM »


Here's what I look at;
who else is there already. Are they any good? Are they maxed out of base? Are they taking this airport seriously?
How much demand is there still be had from this airport, ie empty/underserved routes
Do the airport routes fit my fleet plans, ie SH, LH, puddle jumpers etc etc

Generally if being super competitive you want to dominate your home airport before you expand.

The cost of opening another base is negligible for small and medium size, but large (3) is a huge jump from the cost of (2). (4) is then a small step up from (3).

Simon

Thanks for this answer. I've only been playing a little over week (real time). I still have demand to fill on my first airport with routes that are too big for more than one flight per day but almost nothing left to fill in the empty gaps. That's why I am even asking about this as the fillers really make a difference and I am already loosing that option. I have over 3 million to spend and profits have been 15-20% lately so I'm good there. I am still figuring all of this out but I'm thinking I need to have those short filler runs to keep building, which is why I am even looking at a second airport. I'll do some more research on other airports before I make any decisions. Just trying not to make a big mistake.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 02:58:55 PM by smiller »

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Opening a second airport
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2020, 02:45:33 PM »
Thanks for this answer. I've only been playing a little over week (real time). I still have demand to fill on my first airport with routes that are too big for more than one flight per day but almost nothing left to fill in the empty gaps. That's why I am even asking about this as they fillers really make a difference and I am already loosing that option. I have over 3 million to spend and profits have been 15-20% lately so I'm good there. I am still figuring all of this out but I'm thinking I need to have those short filler runs to keep building, which is why I am even looking at a second airport. I'll do some more research on the direct airports before I make any decisions. Just trying not to make a big mistake.

If you're only a week in you will be making a big mistake at some point so don't sweat it.  The most important part of a new base though is making sure you're expanding your current airline versus trying to create a second one when it comes to fleet types/strategy/etc.  My current airline I started in Denver with 6 existing based airlines because they left TONS of opportunity on the table--undeserved and/or empty routes.  Much of this underserving is due to the fact they were there a long time and demand has outgrown the routes they setup 10+ years ago, creating opportunity.  So if you see a bunch of airlines based at an airport, don't feel intimidated--look for opportunity.  I've since opened additional bases, but have 77 aircraft based in Denver versus the combined 500+ aircraft that other airlines have based there with only 8% pax and 23% cargo marketshare and I'm printing money (or at least I was...9/11 just happened but I should be fine).  I opted to open new bases because I'm not competing for marketshare--I'm competing for profit and I can make more profit opening a new base than oversupplying routes with very low margins.  Those other based airlines are all legacy carriers that own their entire fleets, so I don't really have a snowballs chance at putting them out of business, so the best strategy is to diversify--if they decide to oversupply routes and make a run at putting me out of business, I still have other highly profitable bases to carry me across the finish line.

Offline sanabas

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Re: Opening a second airport
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2020, 06:55:27 PM »
I haven't been playing long but it appears I have used up most of my smaller airports for fillers, meaning almost all show no open demand. I stumbled on the fact that I can open a second airport. My question is am I better off with a larger airport with 2 or 3 others working that same airport or with a smaller demand airport with 1 or no other people competing? Meaning like a 3/4 level with 2 or 3 players already operating there as opposed to a 3/3 with one player or a 3/2 with zero players.

You're in a smallish airport that doesn't have a huge density of routes nearby. For new airport, ideally something a little bigger without a lot of competition. A small airport that can only handle 9 planes might be hard  to make much in. You're better off looking at the route planning from any potential airport. Go to the airport info page, there's a link bottom right to planning from this airport. If you're flying turboprops out to 500-600NM, it doesn't matter if there's an airline with lots of longhaul planes in there. And it's better to find one with a lot of routes inside 600NM, as that makes plenty of difference. e.g. Miami has 69 airports inside 600NM, Charlotte has 169.

Also, if you find lots of ~150 pax routes with 3-4 daily flights on them, you can happily fly a convair and still get ~30 daily pax despite the comp, so will be profitable. If you try and fill the demand with 5 daily flights of your own, you won't be. When I've done that sort of airline, I'll just roughly look at all airports 0-200, 2-300, 3-400, and make a quick note of how many daily flights it'll handle from a 40 seater. With big routes only counting as 3 daily flights max, and everything down to ~30 pax counting as 1. I might get 50 in Miami, and 120 in Charlotte (numbers made up, as I can't remember what I got last time I did this when comparing somewhere like Nashville to Oakland to Salt Lake)

You also have quite a few empty 20 pax routes from your HQ. You could look at buying a bunch of brand new Herons with 14 std seats to fly those. They'll be very profitable. And then you can use the owned herons as loan security to fuel your next expansion.

If I'm you, I'd be looking at Salt Lake, PDX, Midway, St Louis, Nashville, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh as being really good places to expand, with size, location and low levels of competition. Most are decent spots to fly medium freighters later too, as is your HQ. You've got lots of options.

Offline smiller

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Re: Opening a second airport
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2020, 10:08:17 PM »
You're in a smallish airport that doesn't have a huge density of routes nearby. For new airport, ideally something a little bigger without a lot of competition. A small airport that can only handle 9 planes might be hard  to make much in. You're better off looking at the route planning from any potential airport. Go to the airport info page, there's a link bottom right to planning from this airport. If you're flying turboprops out to 500-600NM, it doesn't matter if there's an airline with lots of longhaul planes in there. And it's better to find one with a lot of routes inside 600NM, as that makes plenty of difference. e.g. Miami has 69 airports inside 600NM, Charlotte has 169.

Also, if you find lots of ~150 pax routes with 3-4 daily flights on them, you can happily fly a convair and still get ~30 daily pax despite the comp, so will be profitable. If you try and fill the demand with 5 daily flights of your own, you won't be. When I've done that sort of airline, I'll just roughly look at all airports 0-200, 2-300, 3-400, and make a quick note of how many daily flights it'll handle from a 40 seater. With big routes only counting as 3 daily flights max, and everything down to ~30 pax counting as 1. I might get 50 in Miami, and 120 in Charlotte (numbers made up, as I can't remember what I got last time I did this when comparing somewhere like Nashville to Oakland to Salt Lake)

You also have quite a few empty 20 pax routes from your HQ. You could look at buying a bunch of brand new Herons with 14 std seats to fly those. They'll be very profitable. And then you can use the owned herons as loan security to fuel your next expansion.

If I'm you, I'd be looking at Salt Lake, PDX, Midway, St Louis, Nashville, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh as being really good places to expand, with size, location and low levels of competition. Most are decent spots to fly medium freighters later too, as is your HQ. You've got lots of options.

There is much to digest in this game for sure. I'm reading and learning more daily. Seems like each time I learn one thing I end up with two more questions. :)   From what I picked up on in reading before I chose Austin as my initial hub I was looking for something that didn't have much competition, which AUS does not. In fact almost none. All of the larger hubs I checked had multiple players so I steered clear of those. I'll look over all of the ones you listed.

One question I have, you say that I have a lot of empty 20 PAX slots. That was really my main issue when I posted as I am not seeing those. I am obviously not reading the route information correctly. For instance....when I check AUS-TUL (Tulsa) it shows that there is an average of 18 passengers per day but shows 0 under Total Supply. I took that to mean that there are no available passengers for me as usually I get the green bar with a passenger number there, thinking that meant I was good to go for that route. That's what almost all short haul routes I have left look like, no green bar for Total Supply. Am I misunderstanding how to read that info? If so I'm continue to add to AUS for now as I learn the game.

Thanks as always for your expert help, sanabas.

Offline Lennertlenor

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Re: Opening a second airport
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2020, 11:11:31 PM »
You are misreading the route info page. The blue and red bar is the total demand (number of people that want to fly) and the green bar is the supply (number of seats actually availible on the route). So no green bar is actually ideal as that means there is no competition on the route.

Online groundbum2

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Re: Opening a second airport
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2020, 01:13:16 AM »
there's  2 supply bars. The first one (second one in from left) shows supply by ALL airlines. The next one (right hand side) shows supply, if any, by your airline.

Don't look at seat supply too much, look at frequency. So for example if a route has 200 demand, and 400 supply you could still make money. If the 400 supply is a single 747-400 with 400 seats, you could put smaller planes on and fill them. Essentially AWS (the game) divides numbers of passengers by number of flights.

Simon
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 09:58:42 AM by groundbum2 »

Offline stealy

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Re: Opening a second airport
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2020, 04:46:32 AM »
This visual might make it clearer.

Online groundbum2

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Re: Opening a second airport
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2020, 09:59:07 AM »
thumbs up!

Offline smiller

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Re: Opening a second airport
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2020, 11:25:11 AM »
All of this has been extreme helpful. I totally understand what I have been misunderstanding up to now. Also have been given some excellent ideas for planes and routes. Thanks to everyone for their replies.

Offline Tuckernut

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Re: Opening a second airport
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2020, 07:29:59 PM »
First, welcome to the game.  These folks are competitive but always willing to share ideas and strategy with newcomers.

We all have made our share of major mistakes—all part of the learning process.  My biggest issue at first was a desire to go to big, very expensive airplanes and that can get you into trouble quickly.  Then just when you are starting to make some money, there will be a major world event—9/11, volcanic eruption, political unrest, disease or something that will eat money.  It took me a while to learn to always have a healthy cash cushion.

Have fun and ask for suggestions.  The admins and Sami are always around and patiently answer questions.  And DO use the tutorials available especially when you are trying to understand how airline “B” can schedule one 777 every day on a 6,000 mile segment and you can’t!

Blue skies ahead,

Tuckernut

Offline smiller

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Re: Opening a second airport
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2020, 08:59:30 PM »
First, welcome to the game.  These folks are competitive but always willing to share ideas and strategy with newcomers.

We all have made our share of major mistakes—all part of the learning process.  My biggest issue at first was a desire to go to big, very expensive airplanes and that can get you into trouble quickly.  Then just when you are starting to make some money, there will be a major world event—9/11, volcanic eruption, political unrest, disease or something that will eat money.  It took me a while to learn to always have a healthy cash cushion.

Have fun and ask for suggestions.  The admins and Sami are always around and patiently answer questions.  And DO use the tutorials available especially when you are trying to understand how airline “B” can schedule one 777 every day on a 6,000 mile segment and you can’t!

Blue skies ahead,

Tuckernut

It has indeed been a friendly bunch here and that is really appreciated. I know from experience that dealing with newbies is not usually fun. Definitely taking my time and building with short to medium haul with small props while I learn the game. My cash supply is building daily so far so we will see how if I can keep things running or not on the first try. I won't be shy about asking when I get stumped but always try to research things first. Thanks, Tuckernut.

 

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