Suggestions for Starting Fleet in 1955

[JJP]

Since I have played a GW at the beginning only once (maybe twice) a long time ago, can some of you veterans give me a heads up on what type of aircraft I would want to use from the start through the 60's (what aircraft to transition to after initial, etc)?  I also would like to know when I should make a shift to jet aircraft and then what jets to use.  I am going to start in U.S. and am looking to create a small regional airline (probably max 100 aircraft +/- 30) starting someplace like Detroit, St. Louis, Cleveland or some such airport. 

Thanks!

JJP

[groundbum2]

I'm not a veteran, but I'll give it a stamp. First off you've done the right thing, as you've defined your market first, then gone for the plane type. Lots of people do it the other way round!

Assuming you go mid-USA then the max distance is about 1500nm either way. You're mainly doing domestic and want to hit big airports LAX/LGA/ORd etc as well as the hundreds of US airports that have 100 pax/day. Frequency always wins, so go smaller but not silly small like a 30 seater which is just uneconomic in the end,quick turnaround helps.

Bregeut 763, DC6, Contellation, Vidcount..

Then 727/1-11 thenairbus

[JJP]

Thanks! I really appreciate it!

[Zobelle]

I'm not a veteran, but I'll give it a stamp. First off you've done the right thing, as you've defined your market first, then gone for the plane type. Lots of people do it the other way round!

Assuming you go mid-USA then the max distance is about 1500nm either way. You're mainly doing domestic and want to hit big airports LAX/LGA/ORd etc as well as the hundreds of US airports that have 100 pax/day. Frequency always wins, so go smaller but not silly small like a 30 seater which is just uneconomic in the end,quick turnaround helps.

Bregeut 763, DC6, Contellation, Viscount..

Then 727 / BAC 1-11 then A320.

Bregeut is outdated 10 years before it comes on sale. Avoid unless they’re significantly cheaper than DC4’s (Which aren’t much better but at least can fly further)

Good luck finding DC6’s and “Coinnie” as those will be soaked up by the long haul airlines.

Viscount...Viscounts are great and oddly enough, faster than the piston pounders afformentioned. Good starting plane but they won’t have the range to make it to the west coast from your selections.

727 are okay and range well but may prove too large for the cities you mention (The larger routes that can support them will be PACKED to the gills.), BAC 1-11’s range (This gets better over the course of 10-15 years w better models), and cruise speed leave much to be desired, might as well wait for 737 Jurassic instead. DC9 is also a potential option as it’s better range variants arrive in the late 60’s.

If you go the DC9 route, then waiting for MD90 Is a logical option if your pax numbers can support the larger aircraft, otherwise consider the A320/737 NG family.

Honorable mention: SUD Caravelle..arrives early on the scene and while initially mediocre on range and poor on fuel for its size they may prove to be a good option if everything else is oversold.

[EmilyHampstead]

I suggest the following:

• Boeing Stratocruiser
• Breda-Pittoni BP.471
• de Havilland Comet
• Vickers Viking 1A

-Emily (age 15)

[Tha_Ape]

I really have a keen eye for the Caravelle. From the IVC onwards, iirc, it requires only 2 pilots, which is very, very rare for the era and a must in high labor cost countries. For airports that don't have a huge domestic demand, they really suit well. Plus, the cargo version will be amongst the smaller in the large category, making it a potential killer to the 727F.

Otherwise, as the other said. The Viscount is pretty good and can last very long (~early 90s, but if you do this you need an exit plan).

The Tu-104B (but not the Tu-104, beware) is not bad at all given you don't operate it too long. Will be dirt cheap and easy to get, and this is what makes it interesting. Surely not a state of the art aircraft, but if you're in trouble and can't get your hands on anything else, it's definitely worth considering.

You then ask about what time you should move on from props to jets. It really depends on how you want to play it - potentially you could keep some Lockheed Electra a tad late, or got right away with the Tu-104B or Caravelle, which are amongst the earliest jets.

Basically, it will depend on:
 - what airport you set your HQ in
 - what strategy you want to develop (Detroit would force you to dig in more than St Louis or such)
 - what's available on the UM at game start might influence your fleet building for ~10 years, even if you didn't thought it this way beforehand.

So start with an open mind, but also determination

[Talentz]

Uh... interesting suggestions...


For a small regional airline (I guess?) and starting in a 2nd or 3rd tier US airport... Simple: DC-4, Trans to Il-18. Order some Brittianna's if you feel the demand is there for LH.

Starting in STL is good, because as you expand and raise the Infa/Traf levels, you get more access to cargo which all of the above aircraft can carry (DC4F is alvb at the start).

Later in the 60s, you can decide if and when to switch to your Jet of choice that matches your demand.


Talentz

[Zobelle]

I really have a keen eye for the Caravelle. From the IVC onwards, iirc, it requires only 2 pilots, which is very, very rare for the era and a must in high labor cost countries. For airports that don't have a huge domestic demand, they really suit well. Plus, the cargo version will be amongst the smaller in the large category, making it a potential killer to the 727F.

Otherwise, as the other said. The Viscount is pretty good and can last very long (~early 90s, but if you do this you need an exit plan).

The Tu-104B (but not the Tu-104, beware) is not bad at all given you don't operate it too long. Will be dirt cheap and easy to get, and this is what makes it interesting. Surely not a state of the art aircraft, but if you're in trouble and can't get your hands on anything else, it's definitely worth considering.

You then ask about what time you should move on from props to jets. It really depends on how you want to play it - potentially you could keep some Lockheed Electra a tad late, or got right away with the Tu-104B or Caravelle, which are amongst the earliest jets.

Basically, it will depend on:
 - what airport you set your HQ in
 - what strategy you want to develop (Detroit would force you to dig in more than St Louis or such)
 - what's available on the UM at game start might influence your fleet building for ~10 years, even if you didn't thought it this way beforehand.

So start with an open mind, but also determination

Caravelle III are 2x Pilot last I used them.

I’ve also learned from prior mistakes to only take crap um starter planes (DC3, DC4, etc) on short leases (1yr vs to next D) as it’s not long before better models are released for order.

[groundbum2]

How much cargo is there in the 1950s and 60s? If anybody can answer distinguishing between Europe, US and Japan I'd be interested! Apologies my earlier answer on props got truncated, cat decided the keyboard looked comfy....

Simon

[Zobelle]

How much cargo is there in the 1950s and 60s? If anybody can answer distinguishing between Europe, US and Japan I'd be interested! Apologies my earlier answer on props got truncated, cat decided the keyboard looked comfy....

Simon

It’s there but it won’t keep the lights on by itself.

[deovrat]

Interesting suggestions by everyone. I wonder if its possible to start a cargo only airline in US from the 50s and survive. I have seen some attempts ranging from decent to abysmal in current GW4, but none have convinced me one way or the other. Obviously such an airline won't achieve any world domination, due to the inherent weaknesses of starting off with cargo and having everyone and their dog overtake you whilst you wait for RI to climb. Maybe something to consider when I am a bit more sober..

[schro]

So.. it's going to depend on which airport you actually start in and the average length of your routes. STL, for example, is a fairly good location for the less capable props out there, whereas DTW and CLE are a bit far from the left coast to get by.

So, if you're at a centrally located airport, then you can look at props like the F'ing27 or the NAMC which are both quite economical and will give you good coverage. Both are available starting in the late 50's. F27's have cargo variants while the NAMC can take C seats (all Y seats for the F27). Since these are very low cost planes to operate, they're great when you've got 40-50 demand to anywhere you fly - jets get eaten for lunch at that demand level in this era. Of course, you'll have to start with whatever scrap heaps are available when the game world launches until you can do either of these.

Moving to jets can be interesting and it'll really depend on the demand landscape for your HQ/bases. If everything is in the 50ish range when the world launches, then you're probably looking at 70ish by the mid to late 60's, which makes the Caravelle or BAC interesting options along with the DC9 and 737-Jurassic. The advantage to jets is that you can often cover the work of 3-4 props with about 2 jets. I prefer to make this transition as early as possible (which is why you typically see me with the fairly dangerous to fly Comets) as it lets me go ahead and set my "final" short haul schedules for the game very early on.

On the subject of the 727, it's best used when you have a range requirement for it that is beyond what a DC9 or 737 can fly. In the US, that means you're based in Florida, the left coast or the north east. The 721 economics are less than ideal, and the 727-200Adv's economics  are slightly worse per seat than the 737-Jurassic. For Comets, you can make a similar range argument for them - typically the 4/4A/4B/4C are needed to make decent profits, but the 1/2/3's shouldn't be used for longer range flights.

Simon - As for cargo at start, it really depends on the sami-random game settings applied at the start of the game world.

[saetta]

Viscount, Viscount ,Viscount and then Viscount !!!

[LotusAirways]

As soon as you can, get the Baade 152: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cURB_AEoR4

[saetta]

funny !!

[saetta]

I'll get right on it !
It makes the Languedoc look awesome !!

[Cornishman]

As soon as you can, get the Baade 152: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cURB_AEoR4

WOW !!!   thanks for this. How on earth did the 727 ever outsell this?     

[JJP]

Thanks to everyone!  This is some really great stuff, and I really appreciate the responses.  Thanks!