A Discussion of Fleet Commonality

[Tha_Ape]

How would a 3 billion dollar monthly loss as a result of a 4th fleet type not prevent my airline from getting bigger?

Wrong question. The right one is:
"How could you possibly get bigger?"

For those not used to Schro, his conception of a "small regional airline" is 2000+ a/c

[MikeS]

How would a 3 billion dollar monthly loss as a result of a 4th fleet type not prevent my airline from getting bigger?

One could argue that 1981 aircraft is already reasonably big for a "small regional airline" .....


... oops, didn't see Ape's post 

[schro]

Wrong question. The right one is:
"How could you possibly get bigger?"

For those not used to Schro, his conception of a "small regional airline" is 2000+ a/c

Ok. I'll bite.  A HQ like LHR in most game worlds can easily take more than 1000 planes scheduled. Add that to the new out of base limit of 1000 planes, you're looking at the ability to have 2000+ planes scheduled in a game world. However, that is currently limited by the commonality rule and uptake rate from the used market. Right now, I have 200+ A32x sitting around until I reach 350 of them and can move the 737 classic schedules over to them. I'm also burdened by the fleet renewal side for 777s, where my fleet count is shrinking as I retire old planes in favor of newer ones and move some to 757s (I may have a few hundred unscheduled there). The ability to maintain a large fleet that's no more than 24 years old and do the occasional fleet type transition realistically limits total fleets to about 1500ish planes. If you're not doing a transition, the upper limit is closer to 2000 (but who doesn't do transitions in a long game world?).

So, given the above scenario, I could certainly use a 4th fleet type right now at a reasonable upcharge so I would not have to pause any sort of narrowbody scheduling to do a fleet replacement. Of course, a faster used market uptake rate would also solve this particular issue.

One could argue that 1981 aircraft is already reasonably big for a "small regional airline" .....


... oops, didn't see Ape's post 

I try to do the humblebrag...

[Talentz]

Too be fair to Schro, yes, the charges ($) are stupid high and it shouldn't be that way. I am for making it more reasonable. Just not a cakewalk that leads to 50+ 1500 aircraft fleet airlines at the end of every GW.


Talentz

[tungstennedge]

Wow, I never even though that in a 40-year+ gameworld the limit for fleet size is the rate of plane acquisition, which is why three fleet types are limiting. Never even occurred to me, though I have started to notice in the beginner world.

Also I saw this in GW3
https://imgur.com/a/jtcJ6AK

That person's margin is 22% close to the highest in the GW with 130ac, and only 75lf, with 7 active fleet types.

Why is it possible to have such a high margin with 7 fleets while schro takes a 10x penalty for one more fleet?

[gazzz0x2z]

I'm pretty sure the guy is not actually flying all thsoe groups. His 4 "active" F50s, for example, are probably just on the tarmac waiting to be put on sale. Same for DO328 & S2000s.

[tungstennedge]

oh i see. So when planes are not flying but are owned they still show up in active, makes sence

[Mort]

Until they are listed for sale, when the number will move across to the for sale column.

[Tha_Ape]

Wow, I never even though that in a 40-year+ gameworld the limit for fleet size is the rate of plane acquisition, which is why three fleet types are limiting. Never even occurred to me, though I have started to notice in the beginner world.

Also I saw this in GW3
https://imgur.com/a/jtcJ6AK

That person's margin is 22% close to the highest in the GW with 130ac, and only 75lf, with 7 active fleet types.

Why is it possible to have such a high margin with 7 fleets while schro takes a 10x penalty for one more fleet?

Another point on fleet penalty. We often mention the 3 fleet limit, but it's a little more complicated than that:
1°) under ~80 planes, you got a penalty for your 3rd fleet. So under 80, better stick to 2 fleets. Then it will depend on context, obviously. In certain configurations you can offset the penalty because you stick better to a very diverse market.
2°) the 4th fleet penalty is negligible around 100 planes. Becomes to be quite annoying at 300 planes, and very dangerous at 500+ planes. You can roughly count 2 points of margin lost for each 100 planes you have.
3°) from 4 to 6 fleets, you got another space with just small increases for each fleet you add, then for the 7th fleet you got another big step.

[Mort]

3°) from 4 to 6 fleets, you got another space with just small increases for each fleet you add, then for the 7th fleet you got another big step.

That's good to know - I thought it was exponentially larger for each fleet you added

[Tha_Ape]

Yep. That means that if you're playing a niche market in a country where you won't have real opposition, you can fly almost each route from a Beech to 747 with the perfect fitting plane and still be quite profitable.

[Johan87]

I could certainly use a 4th fleet type right now at a reasonable upcharge so I would not have to pause any sort of narrowbody scheduling to do a fleet replacement. Of course, a faster used market uptake rate would also solve this particular issue.

I try to do the humblebrag...

I don't want to start a fight here,but about 2 reals ago you personally shot me down that a good player should be able to fly 2 fleets and use a 3rd to do fleet exchange.
If i needed  4th fleet ment i was a bad player or you forgot about this?

Now that the new rule gives us 1K of planes at additional bases and with no real resistance can make a homebase 1K+easy if based in a top location give the need for this.
Maybe a little late but would be nice to have a 4th fleet at a reasonal price and not because need for rescheduling,but for the fun of the game can add a type of like or make a flexible fleet at a diverse base

[schro]

I don't want to start a fight here,but about 2 reals ago you personally shot me down that a good player should be able to fly 2 fleets and use a 3rd to do fleet exchange.
If i needed  4th fleet ment i was a bad player or you forgot about this?

Now that the new rule gives us 1K of planes at additional bases and with no real resistance can make a homebase 1K+easy if based in a top location give the need for this.
Maybe a little late but would be nice to have a 4th fleet at a reasonal price and not because need for rescheduling,but for the fun of the game can add a type of like or make a flexible fleet at a diverse base

That advice still applies, but was also given prior to cargo being released. Cargo forces more interesting decisions to be made, such as flying the 757 as I am in Gw2 as a third type. It's also ends up requiring the accumulation of a fleet to swap at the same time. The crux of the issue is more so whether a "small regional airline" (defined as 1500+ planes) that has 100+ billion in the bank be able to be bankrupted in a small number of game years because they added a fourth type. That's the part that's illogical, as smaller airlines can run a fourth type at a much lower level of profit or a small loss, but not one that one shoots them down with a nuclear missile.

[Johan87]

That is true,the cargo has changed the dynamics of the game indeed.
Also the available cargo types are limited so we are forced to stay with a type longer or have to choose a certain type just of the cargo availability.
So a 4th fleet make sense here.
And with the growing of airliner sizes up to 1K in additional bases can make 2K airliners normal and gives them the extra flexability in fleet transition.

[JumboShrimp]

That is true,the cargo has changed the dynamics of the game indeed.
Also the available cargo types are limited so we are forced to stay with a type longer or have to choose a certain type just of the cargo availability.
So a 4th fleet make sense here.
And with the growing of airliner sizes up to 1K in additional bases can make 2K airliners normal and gives them the extra flexability in fleet transition.

If 4th fleet is given to everybody, it will have a big effect on the game, not necessarily good effect.

But if it is limited to airlines that already have 1000 aircraft, it might be something to consider.  This way, most airlines would still be limited to 3 types for first ~20 years of the game, and the 4th type would only be available to those players for whom it is impossible to transition fleets with the current, highly constrained rate of delivery of aircraft.

Or, another solution, without adding 4th fleet type could be increased delivery rate of aircraft, from UM and also possibly new.

[Zobelle]

If 4th fleet is given to everybody, it will have a big effect on the game, not necessarily good effect.

But if it is limited to airlines that already have 1000 aircraft, it might be something to consider.  This way, most airlines would still be limited to 3 types for first ~20 years of the game, and the 4th type would only be available to those players for whom it is impossible to transition fleets with the current, highly constrained rate of delivery of aircraft.

Or, another solution, without adding 4th fleet type could be increased delivery rate of aircraft, from UM and also possibly new.

How about not charging exhorbitant penalty for 4th fleet. 2x, even 4x but not 15x+

[Johan87]

If 4th fleet is given to everybody, it will have a big effect on the game, not necessarily good effect.

Or, another solution, without adding 4th fleet type could be increased delivery rate of aircraft, from UM and also possibly new.

If this happens then maybe a good thing would be a quota for every game month instead of a weekly,so that the people who can enter 1x a day have the same resource as te people who can check 3 or 4x a day.
Lowering the 4th fleet penalty or a mix of these 2 can be a possative move.

[gazzz0x2z]

How about not charging exhorbitant penalty for 4th fleet. 2x, even 4x but not 15x+

Nope, it forces the biggest players to make interesting choices. I agree with those who think that in the late stages of the game, one should be able to have more staff to order used stuff, to limit the hassle of managing very large fleets, while keeping the strategic challenge of fleet choices.

[PowerStationGym]

It seems that there are players on each side of the fence regarding fleet commonality.  How about simply creating a game world where fleet commonality either: doesn't apply, or is not as harsh as it currently is.  That way its a win/win.  If you want the challenge of fleet commonality, play a game world where it is included.  If you want to be able to run various fleets, choose the option where it isn't included.

After playing for 5+ years on this account and my previous account, I would love the chance to operate multiple fleet types without, or with less of, a penalty.

Just my 7cents...

[JumboShrimp]

If this happens then maybe a good thing would be a quota for every game month instead of a weekly,so that the people who can enter 1x a day have the same resource as te people who can check 3 or 4x a day.
Lowering the 4th fleet penalty or a mix of these 2 can be a possative move.

Yes, instead of dispensing 7 calls and 3 aircraft that can be bought per week, the system should do 4x as may in a 4 week period, to put players who log in only once per day more on the level playing field with people who can log in multiple times.

Also, larger airline should be able to buy more than a startup airline, so that fleet replacement of large fleets are more feasible.