DC-10-30CF - comments on my actual experience

[spiff23]

I've posted questions a couple times as I couldn't find any direct experience with the DC-10-30CF (pax/cargo)...so this post is intended to give my experience so far as I'm using them in GW2 where cargo was introduced in the early 1980s (game started in 1950 and we are now in 1985 for future perspective)

if you want to comment on feature requests regarding the plane...use this link
https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,75911.new.html#new

DC-10-30CF experience - awesome LH plane if you can find the right routes.  in theory you get about 180 pax and anywhere from about 15,000 - 40,000Kg of cargo space...although only the small/medium cargo...there is no heavy cargo (use feature request link as that's the premise of that one for all the pax/combi planes). 

The amount of cargo space varies by distance.  Close to max range of 5000-6000nm (US TPAC) you get the 15-20,000 kg capacity and on a US-TATL route you get closer to the max ~40,000kg.  for my notes below, note I own the planes.

I blindly ordered this DC-10 variant when cargo was announced, but before cargo was introduced as I thought it would be a great DC-8-62 replacement for transpacific routes on assumption these routes would have a ton (literally) of cargo demand...routes like SFO to Shanghai, Beijing, Taipei and so on.  Unfortunately when cargo was introduced, I was mostly wrong because these routes have almost no cargo demand.   

Nonetheless, I did replace a set of 7 DC-8-62s as I didn't want to start pulling apart 7 day schedules to find better routes.  So for the first few game years these planes have been flying with good pax load factors (~80%) and awful cargo load factors of 10-20%...in this set up they still cleared about $500k a week with the early 1980s fuel spike.  Definitely doable if owned, but not awesome.  If these were leased (assuming about $1.2-$1.5M/month)...these would probably only clear about $100-$200k per week and would be trouble.

Fast forward to 1985 with enough pax DC-10-30ERs to replace the above routes and start to build a more optimal DC-10CF appropriate 7 day schedule and I have to say WOW,,,at less than full capacity, these planes are performing in the top 5-10% of any long haul plane I've ever run in pax-only AWS (we're talking a 90-100% LF on a  747-400 with tons of C/F seats for a route like JFK/LHR as my gold star benchmark for super-awesome ).

I pieced together a 7 day rotation mixing TATL and TPAC routes.  In all but one case, the routes are highly competitive with no less than 5 daily flights using DC-10s, 747s and some have dedicated cargo planes in the mix.  The one exception route would not be flyable in pax only as demand is  less than 150 but has 20000kg+ cargo demand.  Given the competitive nature of the routes, I'd average the cargo/pax LF around 70-75%.  I'm easily clearing almost $1M more than my best pax only DC-10-30s and I'd say even if I was leasing these, I'd have a profit greater than $1M/week.

So the verdict...awesome plane; one of the best, BUT only if you can build an optimal 7 day schedule of routes with good pax and high overall cargo demand.   I wouldn't go nuts, but if running DC-10s from the top cities...you can definitely build a really nice set of routes linking the tier 1 cities + mix-in a few interesting routes with really high cargo/low pax demand to cover 7-14 of these CFs planes

This should hopefully be a lot easier in a future game world when you might be able to anticipate routes that have good cargo demand as the game progress and you start building your original  long-haul schedules with the idea of ultimately replacing your first sets of 707/DC-8 with a DC-10/747 combi.  At the current time, however, it's a pain with the mid-flight cargo introduction as the only option is to blow apart 7 day schedules that you thought you could ride through all future replacement cycles as the routes where they work to full potential are limited.

[Amelie090904]

I must agree that cargo is highly valuable. I own and fly 86 VC-10F and 40 737-200F out of Stuttgart (!) which isn't even a big airport (top 10 of the biggest airports in Germany). Yet I am on 3rd position worldwide in the cargo categories. I don't even want to imagine the potential out of much bigger airports, let alone in Japan. I don't think your observation should be limited to the DC10. It's a great plane, but honestly ANY cargo plane will get you tons (literally) of money.

[Tha_Ape]

Agreed (with both of you).
The DC-8 is getting a little lame on pax ops (to say the least) and I was really eager to get rid of it. I scheduled just around 15 DC-8-72F and they do wonders. Real wonders. Can't set up more (USSR ain't a cargo heaven), but in another country I would have been very tempted to give up pax LH and concentrate on cargo LH, keeping the DC-8 way longer.
Oh, sure, it will still be less efficient than a DC-10-30F or TriStar F or else, and they carry much less than those WB at short and middle range, but the increased revenue makes the higher fuel burn much less of a problem. And their unmatched range for the era is quite an advantage as well (DC-10 and DC-8 have a completely different payload/range graph).
I was actually just considering that the DC-8 Combis would have been wonderful for Moscow, where neither pax demand or cargo demand is enough for a flight. Unfortunately, it's too late for this. But for next GWs, this is something to remember.

[spiff23]

I was actually just considering that the DC-8 Combis would have been wonderful for Moscow, where neither pax demand or cargo demand is enough for a flight. Unfortunately, it's too late for this. But for next GWs, this is something to remember.

Given how well the D.C.-10CFs are doing, I just pulled 2 D.C.-8-63s out of the desert and will convert them to -73 pax / cargo combis.  I'll post back how they work.  When I was searching for routes I saw a few more that would be interesting and figured no time like the present to expirement.

[spiff23]

I must agree that cargo is highly valuable. I own and fly 86 VC-10F and 40 737-200F out of Stuttgart (!) which isn't even a big airport (top 10 of the biggest airports in Germany). Yet I am on 3rd position worldwide in the cargo categories. I don't even want to imagine the potential out of much bigger airports, let alone in Japan. I don't think your observation should be limited to the DC10. It's a great plane, but honestly ANY cargo plane will get you tons (literally) of money.

Just based on looking for routes, my exception to a limited number of D.C.-10CF would be if I was in Japan.  I would think you could support close to 50 of these and open all sorts of LH routes that never would have worked from the airports like Fukuoka and Sapporo..let alone Osaka and Tokyo.  I predict Japanese carriers will dominate the cargo stats now that it is standard. 

[Tha_Ape]

Depending on how far you fly, the -72 might be more interesting.
Because of the weight of the CFM-56, payload had to be reduced and it impacted the -73 way more than the -72. Thus, for long range ops (>4500/5000nm) the -72 is quite a bit better.

[Talentz]

Just based on looking for routes, my exception to a limited number of D.C.-10CF would be if I was in Japan.  I would think you could support close to 50 of these and open all sorts of LH routes that never would have worked from the airports like Fukuoka and Sapporo..let alone Osaka and Tokyo.  I predict Japanese carriers will dominate the cargo stats now that it is standard.

In GW#1, a US carrier is the current number one with a UK based airline in 2nd place.

In GW#3, a Japanese airline is number one with a US base airline in 2nd place.

So, it really depends on the player, but Japan's market is easier to get ahead in.


Talentz

[yearofthecactus]

In GW#1, a US carrier is the current number one with a UK based airline in 2nd place.

In GW#3, a Japanese airline is number one with a US base airline in 2nd place.

So, it really depends on the player, but Japan's market is easier to get ahead in.


Talentz

GW2 the top 5 is:

USA
Germany
UK
Germany
Canada

[Tha_Ape]

GW2 the top 5 is:

USA
Germany
UK
Germany
Canada

Yep. No Japanese carrier seems to care about cargo... 1st ones are ranking 7th 8th and 9th, and then it drops to... don't know where.
Actually, not a lot of people seem to care about cargo in this GW, as I'm ranking 14th while based in USSR!