AirwaySim
Online Airline Management Simulation
Login
Username
Password
 
or login using:
 
My Account
Username:
E-mail:
Edit account
» Achievements
» Logout
Game Credits
Credit balance: 0 Cr
Buy credits
» Credit history
» Credits FAQ

Author Topic: is the 747-400D an option?  (Read 1354 times)

Offline Antoine

  • Members
  • Posts: 149
is the 747-400D an option?
« on: December 24, 2016, 05:42:11 PM »
Lets say you have a possible route

1500 NM
1100 pax demand
and NO competition

Does it make more sense to slowly add more Narrow body planes on this route ? ( and possibly letting a competitor open a route too and take some PAX)

OR

Lease a 747-400D ( and more of course for other routes ) and stick it on the above mentioned route to grab half the PAX ?

I feel the important factor here is NO competition

Let me know what you guys think !


(ps Happy Christmas)

Offline wapp11

  • Members
  • Posts: 283

The person who likes this post:
Re: is the 747-400D an option?
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2016, 06:47:14 PM »
If you use a 747D thats probably the only route you will be able to fit on it, unless you fins something to fly at night.  I have very little experience with a 747D, actually just tried one in a BW.  Go with the ultimate narrow body and grab a few 757-300s, and then you can fly them on other routes too.  Good fit for a A300, or 767 also.  From what I have seen, 747s don't work well in the normal worlds, they may in the BWs, though.

Offline Talentz

  • Members
  • Posts: 1087

The 3 people who like this post:
Re: is the 747-400D an option?
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2016, 07:12:26 PM »
Hello.

Is it an option? Yes, of course. The real question should be, is the 744 family a good fit for your airline in relation to your alvb route demand. Getting into a 744D just for a few select routes is not wise in aircraft planning terms. Alot of new players get hung up on selecting a specific aircraft for a specific route or sets of routes.

The key in setting good fleet commonality and aircraft routing operations in general, is selecting the best aircraft groups that fit the majority of your route demands. 

So the end answer to your question is yet a deeper question: Can I use the 744 family in strong numbers on other routes?

This is how your thinking should trend when selecting a new aircraft or airport for new routes. 

Talentz
Co-founder and Managing member of: The Star Alliance Groupô - A beta era, multi-brand alliance.

Offline Antoine

  • Members
  • Posts: 149
Re: is the 747-400D an option?
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2016, 07:41:04 PM »
Thanks guys for the response . Overall id say the 747 family could be a good fit ( as long as i dont get any competitors at my airport ) but the overall start up cost for the fleet family is too much for the moment .

Also what makes the 757-300 so great ? is it the turnaround time and the PAX amount ? 

Offline wildavidson

  • Members
  • Posts: 318

The 2 people who like this post:
Re: is the 747-400D an option?
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2016, 08:15:29 PM »
In this game you should not make a decision based on having no competition. Im not in your game but I would not imagine this would be the right move. The beginer world should be used to prepare for full game worlds. In your scenario in a full game, it would probably never be the right decision to fly 744s on that route. You want to have a look at your demand profile and select 2 or 3 fleet types which will work. Normally this would be a short/medium fleet and a long haul fleet as default and then depending on your base you may have another short haul fleet (maybe props) if your have plenty of close demand or another long haul fleet if you are at a base where more long haul exists (Maybe LHR). If there was a way that you had enough long haul routes and demand to support the 744 on long haul routes then maybe but you would leave yourself open to competitors flying on more efficient planes. As mentioned something like a A320, B757 or A300 would be better options.

Offline Talentz

  • Members
  • Posts: 1087

The person who likes this post:
Re: is the 747-400D an option?
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2016, 10:06:19 PM »
Also what makes the 757-300 so great ? is it the turnaround time and the PAX amount ?

Its a stretch of an existing aircraft in the game. In AWS, the operating costs of a group of aircraft are a bit simplified for simulation. While there are minor difference in cost per aircraft type, those costs are very small and easily negated with more revenue (pax). So, seeing as the 753 hold more pax then the 752 yet shares roughly the same costs in operation, this makes the 753 a cash cow.

The same can be said for other stretches... 743s, A321, 739, A306, 764, 773 ect...


Talentz
Co-founder and Managing member of: The Star Alliance Groupô - A beta era, multi-brand alliance.

Offline Antoine

  • Members
  • Posts: 149
Re: is the 747-400D an option?
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2016, 10:20:06 PM »
You want to have a look at your demand profile and select 2 or 3 fleet types which will work. Normally this would be a short/medium fleet and a long haul fleet as default and then depending on your base you may have another short haul fleet (maybe props) if your have plenty of close demand or another long haul fleet if you are at a base where more long haul exists (Maybe LHR).


          A310 ( medium haul flights )
          A320 ( short haul/ medium haul with lower demand than above)
          *A330* possible addition to the fleet ( long haul/ High demand Medium haul)

Is this a good 3 fleet plan?

Offline Antoine

  • Members
  • Posts: 149
Re: is the 747-400D an option?
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2016, 11:17:15 PM »
okay i decided to start over again

This time with the 737-800 as both the medium and short haul aircraft as i felt the use of 2 aircraft for 1 role was too much expenses

Offline gazzz0x2z

  • Members
  • Posts: 3898
Re: is the 747-400D an option?
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2016, 05:01:27 PM »

          A310 ( medium haul flights )
          A320 ( short haul/ medium haul with lower demand than above)
          *A330* possible addition to the fleet ( long haul/ High demand Medium haul)

Is this a good 3 fleet plan?

A310 and A330 are both very large airplanes. It's risky to fly 2 very large fleet groups, unless you are already a very large company. The A320 is really a kickass plane.....which means in real games, availability might be a problem(everyone wants them), at least when it's still a recent plane. When it's getting old, it's a safe bet(thanks to countless bankrupcies), and still very good.

The 737-800 is an excellent aircraft, too. Just, be warned that in real games(probably not in BW), you might be attacked by smaller airplanes. Let's imagine a 640 demand line, for 250NM. You put 1 737 with 4 daily flights, and then I do arrive with 2 A148(or CRJ700, or whatever), and fly 8 times a day. My planes are 90% full, yours 45%. You're still making some small money, but it's no more a cash cow. I am very happy, OTOH. Until another guy comes with S2000, then another one with E120.....
« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 05:07:33 PM by gazzz0x2z »

Offline Springbal

  • Members
  • Posts: 236
Re: is the 747-400D an option?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2017, 01:50:44 PM »
I'm still figuring out the succes but I have some A340's, B767-400's and since they do verry long haul flights (leaving at 6am at monday, landing 9am at tuesday) I usualy give a smaller high demand route in the days between the long flights (so maintenance can be schedueled). So I get a big part of the Pax, I'm not in trouble with maintenance and my planes ar as much as possible in the air.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 01:55:29 PM by Springbal »

Offline MuzhikRB

  • Members
  • Posts: 874

The person who likes this post:
Re: is the 747-400D an option?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2017, 04:32:13 PM »
I'm still figuring out the succes but I have some A340's, B767-400's and since they do verry long haul flights (leaving at 6am at monday, landing 9am at tuesday) I usualy give a smaller high demand route in the days between the long flights (so maintenance can be schedueled). So I get a big part of the Pax, I'm not in trouble with maintenance and my planes ar as much as possible in the air.

if you are not using 7day skdl on your very large AC then you will be dead in real GWs.

Offline gazzz0x2z

  • Members
  • Posts: 3898

The person who likes this post:
Re: is the 747-400D an option?
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2017, 07:40:58 AM »
if you are not using 7day skdl on your very large AC then you will be dead in real GWs.

This.

My last serie of 7 B777 is flying 19.7 hours per day. And, despite matching demand, is just barely making profit(counting staff, return on investment, marketing, etc.....). For those who don't know what 7-day schedule, each aircraft has the same schedule - just starting another day. B777 number one flies so :

Monday KDTW - RPLL 07:45 - 14:05 RPLL - KDTW 16:35 - 20:25
Tuesday KDTW - YBBN 22:55 - 08:35 YBBN - KDTW 11:05 - 15:15
Thursday KDTW - NZAA 19:45 - 06:00 NZAA - KDTW 08:30 - 09:10
Saturday KDTW - PGSN 11:40 - 18:15 PGSN - KDTW 20:45 - 20:45

Which leaves around 10 hours during the night from sunday to monday for the A-check.

The next plane does the same, but flies to Manila on tuesday morning, the third one on wednesday morning, etc... A brand new 777-8X costs in 2027 around 500M$. You must have it in the air all the time not to lose money.

If I flew only one destination per plane, I'd need 8 B777 instead of 7, and I'd fly only 6 days instead of 7. At the price of long-range aircraft, I'd be broke in no time. I'm flying 4 flights per week instead of 3 - that's a 33% increase in revenue. All players alive in real game worlds do that - or avoid long range completely.

Offline MuzhikRB

  • Members
  • Posts: 874
Re: is the 747-400D an option?
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2017, 11:05:25 AM »
at your case - you are having ULH 7day.
it means you can make normal money if LF80+ and no competition, so you can raise prices.

it is better to have 6-8 routes on LH 7day - it will increase turnover. difference between ticket price on 7000+ and 4000+ flight is not linear to distance.

As example:

I have several 7days for 763ER.

1st: 6 routes average LF = 79%. Weekly profit - 900K. Usage 19,4H
2nd: 7 routes LF=74% Usage 18.3 Weekly profit - around 960K.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 11:15:21 AM by MuzhikRB »

Offline gazzz0x2z

  • Members
  • Posts: 3898
Re: is the 747-400D an option?
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2017, 03:08:17 PM »
at your case - you are having ULH 7day.
it means you can make normal money if LF80+ and no competition, so you can raise prices.

it is better to have 6-8 routes on LH 7day - it will increase turnover. difference between ticket price on 7000+ and 4000+ flight is not linear to distance.

As example:

I have several 7days for 763ER.

1st: 6 routes average LF = 79%. Weekly profit - 900K. Usage 19,4H
2nd: 7 routes LF=74% Usage 18.3 Weekly profit - around 960K.

Well, I took this example because it was simpler to explain. I've got also a 7-routes 7-days schedule with MAX7 from Memphis. Makes good money(though not infinite either, 3800NM is not the best range for a MAX7, it's already long). But it would have been longer to report.

You'r right to say that routes above 7000NM are not doing that much money, expecially when you see the huge cost of the hardware required. Ideally, you'd fill shorter routes first. As I could go Very Large only in 2020 after my last fleet transition, those very juicy lines were all taken, and I had to hunt for longer, less profitable routes.

And, BTW, 900k$ of weekly profit for a 767 is not impressive. Substract staff and marketing costs, and you're probably just at the half of real profitability. I did count I have to take off around 600k$ per week for my 777s, so 450 k$ for what is already a very large plane does not seem cheesy to me. My 737 are not far from 300k$ of hidden costs, and 140 k$ for my A148. Roughly.

Offline MuzhikRB

  • Members
  • Posts: 874
Re: is the 747-400D an option?
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2017, 04:39:42 PM »
I have started LH at 2023 :) and based in Manila.
So make 7 days only at free routes. not the best routes surely :)

Offline Maxair

  • Members
  • Posts: 210
Re: is the 747-400D an option?
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2017, 07:11:55 AM »
if you are not using 7day skdl on your very large AC then you will be dead in real GWs.

Not necessarily. I do 3 and 3 with a lot of my LH routes and it works, especially first starting out in a gw. It's good to focus on a few routes early on. No question that 7day sched is better though. Just more tedious.

 

WARNING! This website is not compatible with the old version of Internet Explorer you are using.

If you are using the latest version please turn OFF the compatibility mode.