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Author Topic: Hub Airports with NO SLOTS  (Read 666 times)

Offline 11Air

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Hub Airports with NO SLOTS
« on: November 16, 2014, 11:28:22 AM »
The real problem most of us have is the unavailability of routes at the Hub Airports.  EGLL and LFPG in particular for me but it's a world wide issue.

1. I suggest the 'Sami' and his team should continue to set the initial prices for slots (with it price changing during the 24 hr period) but as each ten per cent is sold out of each hourly slot range the price the goes up by ten percent, for new and existing slot holders. (As an airport operator why wouldn't I do exactly that).

2. In addition I also suggest that 10pc of the traffic not being carried should migrate to the next nearest airport, the percent migrating each 'month'? reducing for greater distances.  In the game mechanics the traffic at EGLL would migrate to EGLC, which would be over capacity so they would migrate to EGKK or EGSS etc.  [EGLL has demand much greater than current traffic is catering for, moving it (= it would move) to satellite airports is what would happen in real world.
Now maybe the range of the passenger flights should be considered so long haul demand doesn't go to EGLC.

This would distribute unmet demand gradually through the South East UK airports, which is precisely what we are seeing, while Manchester is still operating at 60pc capacity.

As a minor tweak to the base mechanics:-
Level 2 base doesn't have Passport Control.  Make Immigration (Passport) Control an add on for Level 2 Bases.  This will help the smaller airlines expand their regional operations.

In addition allow an operator handling more than half? an airports traffic to construct their own terminal rather than leasing space in the main terminal.

I hope this will make the infrastructure reflect real world mechanics more closely, though I accept that changing airport configurations (Runway Lengths and operating Hours) should mirror the Real World or the game moves more towards fantasy, and unpredictable under the influence of the serious gamers here.

Many thanks, Sami and team, for a great game.

Online Cardinal

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Re: Hub Airports with NO SLOTS
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2014, 10:41:59 PM »
1. Slots do get more expensive as they get more scarce. It is cheaper, however, for new entrants. This also happens in the real world at airports like LGA and DCA, where slots are awarded to new entrants over incumbent airlines to stimulate competition. The new-entrant discount in the game serves the equivalent purpose.

2. City-based demand has been in the works for a long time, search the Feature Request forum and you'll see lots of discussion about the issue. It requires a massive rewrite of the demand code, and a lot of data entry which volunteers have been doing for a while now. It's getting closer to reality but is still a ways off.

There has also been a lot of discussion about airlines building their own terminals, that is on the "long-long-long-term" wish-list.

Offline 11Air

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Re: Hub Airports with NO SLOTS
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2014, 07:24:27 AM »
Many thanks, I've been enjoying the base game but finding some things are limiting.  Good to see the team are on it, and there are more than just Sami keeping things running.
Wonderful game that is only getting better.  So nice to have something that doesn't depend on gimmicky moving pictures etc.

Online Cardinal

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Re: Hub Airports with NO SLOTS
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2014, 11:31:26 PM »
I don't work for AWS, I'm one of those "serious gamers" you mentioned. I just happened to know the answer to your questions because I've been part of those discussions in the past.

Some threads that should interest you. The Feature Request forum is locked for new threads, but you are free to reply to existing threads.

City-based demand:,3260.0.html
Thread was started in 2009. Last updated a couple of weeks ago. The later posts are from Sami blogging about the progress of this feature. But I encourage you to read the whole thread to get an idea of what this feature includes, and how we got here. This is the feature request that has evolved the most over time, and you can see the amount of input the players have had.

Starts out as a thread to come up with a solution to slot-hogging, turns into a rather detailed discussion on terminals. It only went on for 3 weeks in 2013, and we've all kind of accepted that this is on the back-burner while the bulk of attention is on developing the city-based demand model.

Glad you're enjoying the game. More players ultimately means a better game.

Offline 11Air

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Re: Hub Airports with NO SLOTS
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2016, 10:25:36 AM »
Some thoughts on Real and Game World things.

I mention Manchester in my posts above because UK plans more runways near London ignoring Manchester, which runs at 60pc capacity with just a single main runway.  That's not what the game shows by the way.  The proposed game 'City Model' is only going to work when excess Pax at one airport migrate to more than the local airport with Fares reducing by distance perhaps.  I'll be know the new City Model is working when half the aircraft going into Heathrow are B737 size, which is what I see in the cheaper hours now.  Also in real world more landing slots are made available by operating both runways for landing at busy times with the aircraft staggered to land alternately to just maintain minimum distances. That puts pressure on departures too so departure slots need to be balanced [or controlled] by demand each hour for landing slots.

Airport PAX numbers are also a big issue in the real world so maybe, after Cargo is sorted, the City Pax model needs to control the available Take-off v Landing slots by demand in each hour (It could be manually changed, say each game month, as traffic levels grow).  Where the City Demand isn't being met then additional Runways or Airports can be 'created' (or Expand Luton/Stanstead?).  My personal favourite for the new Southern UK Airport is the old USAF base north of Oxford where existing rail and Motorway links are within a couple of miles and within 70 miles to London, Birmingham etc.  It could have been active in a few years with a single (existing) runway.

Incidentally I was involved in the creation of T5 at a lowly level.  The opportunity then was to put building outside the runways and put a new runway between the current runways to operate for smaller aircraft departures only.  T1 is now being demolished. T3 has already been rebuilt, but the lack of forward thinking, or political interference, means Heathrow can only increase capacity by demolishing homes needed to support the City.
Jan2016 and London City Airport is currently operating at a loss, and is up for sale.  Current offers suggest the site is more valuable than the Airport operation.

The London Shambles has let neighbouring countries start robbing the London airports, Shannon by Operating US Immigration Clearance at the airport but those sort of Marketing things are some way down the line for the Game, but Pax migration has to be more than per City.


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