Time for a new starters guide?

[pndsc]

Just browsing through the forums here and I've noticed that the same two stickied threads by Curse and Swiftus are at the top of the forums as the go-to guide for newcomers. I dont want to disparage them because theyre generally very good but AWS has undergone a lot of changes since they were written.

Isnt it about time for a new, up to date, starter guide to be put together?

[Curse]

Now that I'm back I'm going to update mine in the next 14 days.

However, my guide still explains things 80% of the people still do wrong...

[Aoitsuki]

Now that I'm back I'm going to update mine in the next 14 days.

However, my guide still explains things 80% of the people still do wrong...

+1 the guide does not necessary have the tip for how you can win the game, but it def is good enough to start as an average airline

[BD]

I would suggest that the new/updated guide contains links to relevant threads that discuss the nuances of the game or provide guiding tips on how to play.

When I started, the Manual and the general guides I found were the starting point.  I still ended up doing a lot of research on the Forums.  

I think it would be a herculean task to articulate what is already captured in relevant threads.  Posting links to a curated list of threads, with a short description of their contents, would be far easier, and have the advantage of being easily updated over time.

The links could all be at the end, or interspersed at the relevant point in the guide.

[Sanabas]

I started to write one, and got sidetracked...

https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,44509.0.html

[Curse]

I don't see a guide as a step to step manual. If somebody wants the iWin-Button he can hire me as a counselor for 200€ per real life hour.

A guide should give the basics but not spoil all the fun of the game. Exploring things and testing things out is one of the most fun parts. Therefore I'm not going to provide exact figures, helpful tools or links to threads where sami exactly said something about AWS calculations.


Who's not willing to get himself or herself into the game and invest some time should probably go back to Tetris or watch grass growing.

[BD]

I don't see a guide as a step to step manual. If somebody wants the iWin-Button he can hire me as a counselor for 200€ per real life hour.

A guide should give the basics but not spoil all the fun of the game. Exploring things and testing things out is one of the most fun parts. Therefore I'm not going to provide exact figures, helpful tools or links to threads where sami exactly said something about AWS calculations.


Who's not willing to get himself or herself into the game and invest some time should probably go back to Tetris or watch grass growing.

Completely misread or misinterpreted what I meant. 

Respectfully, I think this is completely the wrong way to think about it and it hurts AWS more than you probably know.

Some had posted recently that their estimate is that AWS is pulling in $50K annually.  If so, Sami's done an incredible job with the resources he has. If, accurate, he's been giving us a lot of charity.  And, you've got to wonder, is that level of income to operate this game and invest in enhancements sustainable?

Frankly, Sami needs more people to play this game to support it financially.  The more support he gets, the more features we get and more quickly they will come.  The more barriers we break down to fun and interesting game play the better it will attract and keep new players. 

AWS' steep learning curve is one huge...HUGE... barrier, that I think most here recognize, otherwise why bother with an update to any guide? Or, why have mentors?

It is no value to force people to prove their mettle at doing extensive forums research.  We don't have to go to the extreme of spoon feeding noobs as you interpret, but we can sure ease their entry into the game by making relevant knowledge more easily accessible. 

Links to relevant threads is a minor addition, saves time on rewrites, and does still leave the reading and thinking to the noobs.  Hardly a "push button" solution being proposed. 

I'm just giving my suggestion from the perspective of a noob and what would have been helpful as I was coming up to speed, and thought it could save some writing time now and in the future as new features arrive. 

In any case, you will be the one who is updating your guide, so it is up to you what gets included.  (BTW, I did find your guide an informative package, really...thank you!)  Whatever you choose to do, an update will still be a benefit. 

[BD]

I started to write one, and got sidetracked...

https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,44509.0.html

Indeed, rather helpful.  Your notepad planning inspired my planning approach! 

[Curse]

At the end of the day I don't fill my mind with sami's financial plans as I don't think about the worker and his family when I choose the brand of my new car. Also (I guess this hasn't changed the last year?) he doesn't run AirwaySim and the other projects for a living.


I'm also not sure how could I have misread what you wrote. On the one side there are two guides from me - one in Beginner's World forums with exact figures (here: https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,43309.0.html ) and the one in this forums that is a bit more general knowledge (here: https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,31706.0.html ) and on the other side there's your comments in this thread.

You said those guides are not going to provide enough facts - facts that explain exact meta of the game (for example: A route can be grow 30%+ when you fly it).


That's where I said this is true and it's intentional and I'm not going to insert much of these facts because in my opinion (!) exploring games, trying out strategies and tactics and even failing, is big part of the fun and experience.


To what you underlined:
AirwaySim requires time. If you can't invest some minutes a day you either have a very small airline that is probably going down due to this some day or you are at a bigger airport and others will BK you even faster. AirwaySim is no browser game fast food - actually neither in time nor skill.

So, what's the real problem? Is it the fact I make some of my strategies and hints only available to a selected group of people, like my alliance or people I mentor or "AWS buddies" in Skype? Nah. Those things didn't just appear when I woke up, they are things player will find sooner or later themselves and I know many already did. The real problem AirwaySim has are people who don't have or want to invest time. They don't invest time in their airlines and they don't invest time to read a forum or guides or the manual or the FAQ that is with the manual.
Actually the number of help threads decreased after I finished my guides - but remember these are people who already made the jump from the game to the forum. They WANTED to learn and gather information. The problem are the (sami might have more accurate numbers) 50-80% of the people who never jump into the forums and therefore miss all the guides.

[Aoitsuki]

These guide really only get you started on 'oh what in the world is going on', and usually allow you to survive in most scenario unless the game was tuned to a very hard difficulties. As Curse mentioned, it is a starter guide, not a guide to tell you how to win AWS.

OFC there are traps and many well known 'what to look out for' that is not published in most guide or even discussed. In fact without bk-ing or really get into trouble you won't understand how this game really works(just like any other major game/simulations, trial and error is required). As most guide mentioned, you will most likely BK a few times on your first run before running a decent airline. Some might get lucky and get picked up by more experienced player and get into alliance which open you to valuable information(nothing gets better then having a chat room that you can almost ask and learn). But bottom line it is really down to how much you are willing to commit to the game.

One thing to note, there is no cookie cutter build in this game. Depends on your goal and resource your outcome may be different(example, certain aircraft may work perfectly fine in USA but useless in Asia). A competitive player may bankrupt if he/she leave the airline which is in perfect health idle for a period of time.

[Sami]

Also (I guess this hasn't changed the last year?) he doesn't run AirwaySim and the other projects for a living.

Still a part time project, waiting for that guy with a suitcase full of money to appear on the doorstep. But perhaps that's all of the finances then, eh, since that won't ever be public stuff.


Also, to topic. Manual. It needs work and I have considered a wiki type solution but the problem is mostly technical, since I don't know any good lightweight wiki scripts that could be easily plugged into the current site core and login systems (MUST be seamless integration like the forums). I have worked with the "real" wiki software (Mediawiki) but it is a major pain in the a.. to work with and extremely bloated too, so it's not possible to be used. Anyway, just had a thought that a simple wiki-based manual could be better and these sticky forum threads could be forgotten too then.

For new users, btw, an interactive tutorial to guide the first steps is also planned and bits coded already too. But it is rather complicated...

[Curse]

I still think the manual and the guides are fine. The problem are all the people who don't care about these useful help tools. 50% of the threads in Beginner's World can be answered with a simple manual and/or guide link...

Maybe a Wiki would be a really good idea. Actually I like to browse Wikis for games - no matter it's Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Starbound, Minecraft or what ever and I really miss it on some other games I like e.g. Wargame or Football Manager.


If you build in such a wiki I would love to transform as many of my current things there as well as extend new articles. And I'm also sure others who might not want to create a whole guide but have specific knowledge about a special airport etc. would contribute, too, so a Wiki could be a solution to concentrate all this knowledge.

[Curse]

@ BD

I just noticed I already have links (or at least one) to specific admin statements in my FAQ, for example here at 1):
https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,31706.msg164387.html#msg164387

[BD]

I don't think you are getting my point...I'm not sure I can be clearer.  

I'm not saying the guides are not good.  Nor am I suggesting a big production to score a touchdown in one go (Win It button), just something simple to move the ball five yards - links to good threads that expand on a topic, or a backdrop discussion behind a new introduced feature.  

I don't know what the fuss is about.  If the intent of the guide (or updates to it) is to help new users, I'm not sure why the suggestion is not taken in that context.  

Making it easier to get at the information won't stop new players from BK'ing from their mistakes (an important part of the learning process), nor from exploring different strategies.  And it won't stop the lazy players from being lazy.  But, if they are interested, it will still require some investment of their time to become competent, just little more time playing the game vs time spent researching it.

If after reading this you still don't see what I am talking about, then let's just agree to disagree and move on.  

You are the author and you get to decide what is in and what is out.  I'm sure it will still be helpful to have the updates you intend to make.

And, yes, a Wiki with community contribution would probably go a long way to address the learning curve.

[Curse]

So... why aren't you going to write a guide like you want it? It would have a different idea behind than my one so people could profit.

[BD]

So... why aren't you going to write a guide like you want it? It would have a different idea behind than my one so people could profit.

No need to write another guide.  Curate threads, maybe. 

Already had been thinking about doing that, but time (and enthusiasm to play the game) has been preventing me from acting on it.  Been rather busy on JA8, but got tempted to jump into GW4, which is eating up all that extra time! 

[Curse]

So, wait... you actually tell other people how they should do their things, accuse them they don't contribute enough but you are to lazy to do something yourself?

Hm. That's a bit awkward.


Edit: However, I'm out of this part of the discussion. It's not leading anywhere and, of course, I'm not going to change my mind or something else.

[swiftus27]

Im waiting for city based planning to start again.   

Most of what Curse and I have written is still accurate.  Sure things like the ABCBA routes are gone but what was told within them is still true.

Stick to a couple of fleet groups early on.
Seating quality is worthless above standard (never use HD on flights longer than 2 hours)
Better to fly one route to 110% demand versus 10 routes at 10% demand
Frequency is king (but now the 752 isnt the "god plane" like it used to be)

[ucfknightryan]

Im waiting for city based planning to start again.   

Most of what Curse and I have written is still accurate.  Sure things like the ABCBA routes are gone but what was told within them is still true.

Stick to a couple of fleet groups early on.
Seating quality is worthless above standard (never use HD on flights longer than 2 hours)
Better to fly one route to 110% demand versus 10 routes at 10% demand
Frequency is king (but now the 752 isnt the "god plane" like it used to be)

That one isn't necessarily true any longer.

[BD]

So, wait... you actually tell other people how they should do their things, accuse them they don't contribute enough but you are to lazy to do something yourself?

Hm. That's a bit awkward.


Edit: However, I'm out of this part of the discussion. It's not leading anywhere and, of course, I'm not going to change my mind or something else.

Dude!  Where do you get that???       

Something is woefully wrong if that is what you think I am saying.  Then throw out a completely false accusation on top of that.   

Such fuss, good grief! 

Yep, better to let this "discussion" end.