what's the idea behind the slot moving cost?

[meiru]

I've got some routes flown by ATR72 and I want to replace them with an MD80. Now, I've to move the departure times by about 30 minutes... and the systems tells me, that I've to rebuy the slots... but, can somebody tell me, what the idea behind this price is? I agree, that if the slots first are in a region where it cost's less than at the new time, that I have to pay the difference. But... paying the slots again? Completely? I don't see why this should be so... even if I move them +- 4 hours.

[TerryMcKenna]

If you just move them forward in smaller time slots like 10-15mins you dont have to pay. Repeat this until you get your required timings.

[meiru]

Yes, I know... but what is the idea behind those costs?

[brique]

far as I know, its to stop folk buying cheap slots then moving them over into expensive time-bands ; for example, I buy a 03.00 slot for beggar all, then move it to 06.00 which would cost mega-bucks.  So everyone could just buy any old cheap slot, and everyone could then move them to the prime times and nobody would ever end up paying the true cost of those choice spots, which could then be running way over its real capacity. Result is, some mechanism has to be in place to prevent that sort of behaviour  ergo... you get to pay the true cost of the new spot when you move your slot more than a small step or two.

[meiru]

ok, that's good... but... wouldn't it be bether to charge the difference of the current costs? this has the same effect, but doesn't generate that much stupid work like editing the route 4 times to move the slot 35 minutes, simply because the new aircraft is faster... that's also causing a huge server load... can't be the idea I guess and with 7 day scheduling it's even worse ...

maybe we should transfer this into the feature request section

[Kadachiman]

It already is cheaper to move slots than it is to buy new slots

You can move for free by doing the 10 minute hop thing, as long as the time slot you want to move them to or through has available slots.
Or
You can move to a new time zone at a lower fee than buying totally new slots at the new time zone.

[brique]

I dont see any reason at all to make the process cheaper : if you need to nudge a schedule over 10 minutes or so to get a neater fit, that's fine as a one-off : but anything more is, effectively, creating a new route and should be charged as such. You can still get to keep the existing slot and that runs under the same rule as before, use it on another route or lose it due to inactivity. I'd like to see a limit on the number of times a slot can be nudged 10-15mins or so : I certainly think it should never be allowed to travel further than 30mins from its original position. That's more than adequate to accommodate the average re-fleet re-scheduling needs : You pay a one-off fee to use a particular slot at a particular time and its yours without further cost as long as you continue to use it : abandoned slots give no recompense under usual practice, as in cancelling a route and returning them to the pool, or having them lapse : so why they should have any greater value when moving a route seems lacking in internal logic, to me.

[meiru]

... so why they should have any greater value when moving a route seems lacking in internal logic, to me.

And because you don't see why it could be useful, others shouldn't get it? I also don't see why it could be useful to have e.g. a telephone inside the garage... but hey, if somebody want's it... why not?

The question was NOT, if somebody can see a reason why this could be useful for himself. The question was, why the rule exists that prevents it! And I think the reason is (like it has been sayed here), that it shouldn't be possible to buy slots in the night, when they're cheap and move them later to other times to save money. But, if the system charges the difference of the slot costs in such cases, it wouldn't be a problem anymore and thus an other (in my optinion a bether) solution for the "slot moving problem" giving additional possibilities in planing.

And, I don't see any disadvantage here, if people can move the slots... but, if you think that there is a disadvantage, the idea of charging a little bit of the slot costs if you move it (e.g. 10%-20%) could be an option.

[brique]

And because you don't see why it could be useful, others shouldn't get it? I also don't see why it could be useful to have e.g. a telephone inside the garage... but hey, if somebody want's it... why not?

The question was NOT, if somebody can see a reason why this could be useful for himself. The question was, why the rule exists that prevents it! And I think the reason is (like it has been sayed here), that it shouldn't be possible to buy slots in the night, when they're cheap and move them later to other times to save money. But, if the system charges the difference of the slot costs in such cases, it wouldn't be a problem anymore and thus an other (in my optinion a bether) solution for the "slot moving problem" giving additional possibilities in planing.

And, I don't see any disadvantage here, if people can move the slots... but, if you think that there is a disadvantage, the idea of charging a little bit of the slot costs if you move it (e.g. 10%-20%) could be an option.

Um, its a difference of opinion, and my opinion carries no more weight than yours does here and certainly my objections dont ever seem to have acted to prevent any changes, so go ahead and argue your case : just also accept not everyone agrees with you and may well argue against your case : that's how a debate works.

So, why should you even be allowed to move a slot from one time-band into another? Because its convenient for you and you would also like it to be a lot cheaper than re-making the route entire. So, who is arguing from a self-interest point here?

sad fact is, people will 'game' any system to accrue maximum advantage : allowing this kind of 'back-door' access to desirable time-bands will be gamed : folk will plan routes initially to benefit from cheap slots then, over time and as their profitability and cash-flow improves, move them into prime time-bands : making that easier or cheaper is not the solution to such gaming of the system.

Re-fleets are messy businesses, re-sheduling is a nightmare, especially if turnarounds and flight times are radically different between the types : well hey, that also part of the cost of getting a better, more efficient aircraft onto the route to make you even better profits from it.

Slots are a one-off cost and you can keep them for the entire game world, free and gratis. The fact is, you pay off that cost in a few months of flying : everything after that is gravy.  I just dont see why any changes to your slot positioning, being made to your advantage, should come free, or cheap, or even at all. Its a new route in everything but name, after all : a new aircraft, with new timings : that's my opinion on it.

[meiru]

Maybe it's not the cost that is the problem... maybe it's just, that the planning process is so annoying. You can't plan anything on the website itself and then save it, when you're finished. So, you purchase the slots and then, 2 minutes later you remark, that you want to shift them up 30 minutes and this costs you again... this results that planning is done outside the game, causes a lot of paperwork and a lot of mistakes can be done (e.g. you didn't see, that at 1 of 29 airports you want to fly to the slots from 12-15 are full and you have to modify other flights). ... and in the end you're not managing an airline, but trying to find out, how to enter the plans, so that it doesn't cost you more than it should.

That's the same with some ticket systems for railways we have here... if you try to get one from A to B, the ticket machine asks, you, if you want option a, b or c and you have to go through all 3 options to find out, which one is the cheapest... it's even possible to buy a ticket that costs you more than the ticket for a complete year (you can take as many rides as you want during a year). That's just annoying...

I know, routes can be created without buying slots. But to buy the slots I've to edit every route again. For a 7 day scheduling it's at least 98 routes...

[brique]

I agree totally, route planning is a major headache : its why I avoid 7-day schedules altogether, too much hassle to gain a marginal benefit (that said, over numerous flights those benefits can add up to serious dosh, but at the cost of numerous headaches putting them all in place) : there is a request thread for creating a simple 'one-click' method of swapping schedules over to a new aircraft type which would keep, if possible, to using the existing slots. I think that would be of immense benefit to re-fleeters and is worthy of support as an idea for change.

[Sami]

u can't plan anything on the website itself and then save it,

Yes you can. Just create/edit routes without getting slots to them (you can even schedule them), and when everything fits just buy the slots...


(Edit: actually you said that too.. But that's what is available, and it is not that much of a hassle really..)