3 main flaws

[deepblue501]

I love the game and am quite addicted to it, but here are main problems i see, i would call them the BIG 3:

- lack of possibility to develop 2nd hub (I can hardly keep developing at MUN and don't want to send my planes all the time to other airports with 0% L/F due to too low pax demand for many connections each day, in order to further connect to another airport)
- lack of possibility to schedule in advance (this is a SERIOUS problem, I can't wait in front of my PC until the exact moment a plane arrives or a schedule is finished, I have to be able to do that in advance)
- lack of development of demand (demand seems to be fixed, hardly any fluctuation on routes  - gets boring after a while)

anyone agree? i believe above issues should be amongst the first to look at when further developing the game.

[Sami]

Demand is not fixed ... It is currently based on a "global airline travel index" and it changes steadily over time (up or down). Next version will also include country specific economic changes that affect this.

[xolon]

I agree with the first two issues. As third problem I like to add the alliance feature, as it´s at the moment under developed. I know features will be added in later updates, but for now it still misses the ´cooperation part´.

[swiftus27]

The second issue is your own.  You can schedule when a plane is going to be delivered so you can plan accordingly.

[deepblue501]

but then you need to be exactly on time when it arrives. Real life is not that predictable. Besides I'm talking about planning of C checks as well. Now they start automatically and the plane is taken off its routes. Unless I am there at the time, or I can do the C check a little in advance, I will loose income and image because the route will not be flown.

Please understand, if you have 10 aircraft you can schedule everything more or less according to when you will be online, but when you have 130 aircraft it is not possible anymore.

[swiftus27]

Then have 1 plane extra for ever 15 planes. 

When you wake up, go to bed, or get home from work, you can simply move the route from one plane to another. 

[ban2]

or just ask sami to do it for you, in fact can we have a button that does everything for us!!!! 

jeez it does'nt take a lot to plan these things, and obviously not a lot to make it difficult.

[Pike]

Sami -

I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing this change in demand you mention.  I watch my routes quite closely, and I can tell you firmly that not one has shown growth.

Ban & Swiftus -

I don't think it is unreasonable to mention the idea of scheduling in advance.  Why you guys seem to think this is the mark of laziness is beyond me.  And no, it is not just 'his' problem. 

Consider the used market.....

You have to grab aircraft when they come available.  That often means that the MD-88 I need is available just about the time I need to get to bed.  So what do I do?  Well of course, I lease the aircraft.  And then it sits, losing money, until I am able to attend to it.  A method to advance schedule the aircraft would eliminate that waste. 

It might not be possible to do, but to suggest that we are asking for someone to do everything for us, or that we are 'jeez' lazy is ridiculous.  Just because it is not important to you, does not make it unimportant.

Now....

If I could get one thing added to the game, it'd be connecting traffic.  Sami, would it not be possible to add this to the game as perhaps a 'bonus' to demand for airline at a specific airport based on the number of daily flights from said airport? 

[ban2]

I have seen the demand fluctuation on 1 of my routes went from 160 pax/day up to 180/day.

I run 752s which are also very hard to get hold of but they do come up and becuase i've had to wait my business is that much better off having to wait. You can also delay delivery for up to 17 weeks and if my maths is right...

                                                                                            Game time        Real time
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                1 week   =    2hrs   55min
                                                                                                2 weeks  =    5hrs   50min
                                                                                                4 weeks  =    11hrs  40min
                                                                                                8 weeks  =    24hrs

forgive if if my maths is out there, so by delaying your delivery you have it arriving when you're ready for it.

I agree with you about the connecting pax and i'm sure it has been brought up before and is being considered as we speak.

[Pike]

I have seen the demand fluctuation on 1 of my routes went from 160 pax/day up to 180/day.

I run 752s which are also very hard to get hold of but they do come up and becuase i've had to wait my business is that much better off having to wait. You can also delay delivery for up to 17 weeks and if my maths is right...

                                                                                            Game time        Real time
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                1 week   =    2hrs   55min
                                                                                                2 weeks  =    5hrs   50min
                                                                                                4 weeks  =    11hrs  40min
                                                                                                8 weeks  =    24hrs

forgive if if my maths is out there, so by delaying your delivery you have it arriving when you're ready for it.

I agree with you about the connecting pax and i'm sure it has been brought up before and is being considered as we speak.

One major thing you are forgetting though, is that when you delay delivery, you are still paying for leasing costs.  So the plane is still losing money.  At least, that is how I understand it.  Correct me if I'm wrong here.....

As for your business being better off because you had to wait; the same simply isn't true for me.  My mantra thus far has been to expand as aggressively as possible, since I started a week behind the curve.  To be honest, if you aren't ready for the aircraft, I can't see why you would order them.  I order when I forecast a need, and with the delays for new aircraft, that usually means that I look to the used market first.  I do now have about 40 new aircraft coming, but of course not for some time.  So to continue my growth, you guessed it.....alot of used aircraft that have to hold the fort down for another year or so.  At one point, I grabbed 6 aircraft off the market that I needed badly to continue expansion.....and all 6 sat there burning money until I was up again the next morning to get them to their assigned routes (I do all the routes ahead of time of course.)  So far this strategy has worked well for me, as I'm #10 in passengers carried, despite being based from a relatively small airport.

Anyway, as said before it might not be possible, but would be a huge help if it were included in the game.


Interesting that you saw the demand go up.  Hopefully I will see it soon as well!                                 

[Sundaypilot]

- lack of possibility to schedule in advance (this is a SERIOUS problem, I can't wait in front of my PC until the exact moment a plane arrives or a schedule is finished, I have to be able to do that in advance)

I fully agree on this. Actually it has already been requested during beta testing by several people. Hopefully Sami will find a solution some day.

To people not seeing this as an important feature: Not everyone can stay at their computer every minute or log in whenever they like!
It's pretty useless to order planes, if you cannot be at your computer when it is delivered. It will stay on the ground just causing expenses until you're back. For me it can be 24 hours, so 6 weeks lost in game time for used plane. I make my schedules ready for the new plane in advance. I would also like to be able to assign them to the plane before it is delivered. Delaying delivery doesn't help too much, as plane doesn't make any money before it has routes assigned.
If I start to wait for the moment when I'm sure I will be at the computer when the plane is delivered, I can't order any plane at all.

[ban2]

- lack of possibility to schedule in advance (this is a SERIOUS problem, I can't wait in front of my PC until the exact moment a plane arrives or a schedule is finished, I have to be able to do that in advance)

ok i owe you an apology i misunderstood your question..sorry.

i agree it would be great to pre assign a schedule to an aircraft you've already ordered.

[darthluke100]

one more flaw THERE ARE NO GAMES

[Sami]

(you can start by reading the site news / announcements for that matter, info on that has been posted a week ago already)

[swiftus27]

What?  There is a 3rd game starting?
WOW...  where could anyone find news of that?

[Pike]

What?  There is a 3rd game starting?
WOW...  where could anyone find news of that?

Well at least I came to understand why pre-scheduling aircraft isn't a big deal to you.  You only have 16 planes to figure out. 

Holler back when you managing 70 or more, and see if your opinion doesn't change a bit.

[Talentz]

- lack of possibility to develop 2nd hub (I can hardly keep developing at MUN and don't want to send my planes all the time to other airports with 0% L/F due to too low pax demand for many connections each day, in order to further connect to another airport)

Hmm.. while you may not be able create a 2nd full "hub", you can create hubs through continuations. This can be very effective when done right. Your not limited to just flying hub-point-hub flights..

Also, if you want more demand.. base at a bigger airport. Every airport has its own limit to what it can support.

lack of possibility to schedule in advance (this is a SERIOUS problem, I can't wait in front of my PC until the exact moment a plane arrives or a schedule is finished, I have to be able to do that in advance)

While it maybe useful, I dont see a problem with it myself. Given Sunday's comments, I dont have a tough time routing and planing aircraft. I tend to schedule aircraft around the time I know ill be home.. (IE: If I get off work at 10pm.. then I have the delivery come at 11pm..)

The only problem is with new aircraft. Because the delivery is so far in advance. Though, theres really nothing you can do about it. Its too far in advance to predict.

lack of development of demand (demand seems to be fixed, hardly any fluctuation on routes  - gets boring after a while)

Boring? Hmm.. must be at a small airport I assume?   ~ Demand is based on (mostly) real data.  It grows everyday/week/month/year as Sami stated.

Are you going to see major jumps in demand after a week.. or month? No.. of course not. You dont see it in RL. However, I can tell you that demand indeed grows. I've watched the demand grow all though out beta2 at IAH. It grows. Trust me. Routes in 1965 that were 50 daily. Ended up being 250 daily by 1975.

Were using as close to real data as possible. There is no "made up data so everyone can fly everywhere" in this game.





Talentz

[Pike]

Hmm.. while you may not be able create a 2nd full "hub", you can create hubs through continuations. This can be very effective when done right. Your not limited to just flying hub-point-hub flights..

Also, if you want more demand.. base at a bigger airport. Every airport has its own limit to what it can support.


While it maybe useful, I dont see a problem with it myself. Given Sunday's comments, I dont have a tough time routing and planing aircraft. I tend to schedule aircraft around the time I know ill be home.. (IE: If I get off work at 10pm.. then I have the delivery come at 11pm..)

The only problem is with new aircraft. Because the delivery is so far in advance. Though, theres really nothing you can do about it. Its too far in advance to predict.

Boring? Hmm.. must be at a small airport I assume?   ~ Demand is based on (mostly) real data.  It grows everyday/week/month/year as Sami stated.

Are you going to see major jumps in demand after a week.. or month? No.. of course not. You dont see it in RL. However, I can tell you that demand indeed grows. I've watched the demand grow all though out beta2 at IAH. It grows. Trust me. Routes in 1965 that were 50 daily. Ended up being 250 daily by 1975.

Were using as close to real data as possible. There is no "made up data so everyone can fly everywhere" in this game.





Talentz

Thanks for the info Talentz, very interesting stuff about the demand.  I see your point about the rate of growth seen....lol, I haven't stopped to think that I'm barely over a year in game time so far, lol.

[highways1]

On a side note of the demand increase, do slots increase over time? Looking at most airports that have been around a while they have expanded and added more gates/slots as the years have passed. Obviously there are always going to be slot issues at airports but I was wondering if this has been looked at or will be in the future.

[deepblue501]

Hmm.. while you may not be able create a 2nd full "hub", you can create hubs through continuations. This can be very effective when done right. Your not limited to just flying hub-point-hub flights..

Also, if you want more demand.. base at a bigger airport. Every airport has its own limit to what it can support.


While it maybe useful, I dont see a problem with it myself. Given Sunday's comments, I dont have a tough time routing and planing aircraft. I tend to schedule aircraft around the time I know ill be home.. (IE: If I get off work at 10pm.. then I have the delivery come at 11pm..)

The only problem is with new aircraft. Because the delivery is so far in advance. Though, theres really nothing you can do about it. Its too far in advance to predict.

Boring? Hmm.. must be at a small airport I assume?   ~ Demand is based on (mostly) real data.  It grows everyday/week/month/year as Sami stated.

Are you going to see major jumps in demand after a week.. or month? No.. of course not. You dont see it in RL. However, I can tell you that demand indeed grows. I've watched the demand grow all though out beta2 at IAH. It grows. Trust me. Routes in 1965 that were 50 daily. Ended up being 250 daily by 1975.

Were using as close to real data as possible. There is no "made up data so everyone can fly everywhere" in this game.





Talentz

Talentz, it's great to do continuations but at a certain time even slots are all taken up. While in theory this shouldn't be a problem, cauz airlines deal for them in airport negotiations, in this game it is, because there is no interactivity, ie i cannot buy slots from another airline for example. That would be a great addition, to make the game more elastic.

Munich where i fly from is definetely not small, while not as large as LHR or FRA it ranks among the top 10 or so in Europe. I wouldn't consider that small...

Now for the most important part: the scheduling in advance (thx Pike for understanding  )
Look, when you expand agressively like Pike or me you get whatever you can get that is reasonable. This means a lot of planes from the used market. While I understand you can deliver them later than 2 weeks, you try to avoid it because you want to expand asap, which seems quite logical to me because most people playing a game want to compete on the top level, right? But even if you schedule delivery for 3/4 or whatever number of weeks, you may still be obstructed to join the game at that moment. Not everybody has a stable 9-5 life and job. Besides, when you have 30 or 40 planes coming towards you it is impossible to schedule them all.

But that is not even really the point. The main problem for me is with scheduled C checks. Guys try to imagine that you have to manage almost 150 aircraft, each of them has either different delivery times or different C checks times. This as a result of your earlier expansion in which you tried to get hold of as many aircraft as you can. Imagine you have a schedule like this:
3 apr - aircraft 1
4 apr - aircraft 2
7 apr - delivery of aircraft
8 apr - aircraft 3
12 apr - aircraft 4
15 apr - aircraft x comes back from C check
16 apr - aircraft b comes back from C check
19 apr - aircraft 5
22 apr - aircraft 6
29 apr - aircraft c comes back from C check
30 apr - delivery aircraft
8 may - aircraft d comes back from C check
9 may - lease expires
14 may - aircraft 7
19 may - aircraft 8
20 may - aircraft 9
20 may - aircraft 10
24 may - aircraft 11
27 may - aircraft e comes back from C check
29 may - delivery aicraft

and so on...it even get's more full, this is just an example. It means spending non stop 24 hrs in front of the PC in order to do 2 months. Now this is impossible. Even if you do not work, or have holidays you still need to go to sleep. In the meantime suddenly B checks start going crazy, C checks become a total chaos, some of your routes are not being flown, your image goes down, aircraft are on the ground earning no money.

And trust me, when you start managing more than 150 aircraft every month is like the one above.

So my point is: pls put scheduling in advance in the game, as it would make life so much easier. You could organize yourself this way that you stay in front of your PC for example on saturday for a few hours and schedule everything in advance, so next time you have to log in will be around sunday evening, without any weird stuff happening in the meantime.



Perhaps another specific example. Right now it is 0.15 at my place. I am tired. However, I have 2 767's coming out of C check in 4 days, and one 767 going into C check in 4 days. Now in a perfect world I would schedule one of the C checked planes to replace the 767 starting the C check and scheduling the other C checked plane for routes. This takes me 10 mins, then I go to bed. However, now I have to wait for 2 more hours to do all this, OR (and honestly, this is the better option) I go to bed and wake up in the morning. However at that time we are not 4 days further along the road but 16 days and the routes from my 767 going into C check will not be flown and the OTHER two C-checked planes will be standing on the ground doing nothing, UNTIL i can get to the pc again in the morning. Now, sorry guys, but this simply doesn't make sense to me.

Sorry for taking so long, but again, for the longeivity of the game this is a very very important issue.