After a couple days, a few thoughts about the game...

[xolon]

I don't mean to come across rudely, though I am sure I did
.......
My apologies for being less than polite in the discussion,

Don´t worry

[Sami]

I am totally with you about short vs. long flights.  I don't know if it is possible, but it would be cool if the game could impose a minimum depending

Yes that will be done, no other way ... as the current turnarounds are based on the 'full service' / big turnarounds and I need to separate the type of operation in order to be able to lower them ... (etc.)

[Pike]

OK, another thought for ya:

C Checks are the bane of my existence, and might ruin this game for me.  OK, just kidding on that one. 

I know, I know.....reality right?  But for crying out loud.  They cost millions AND take the aircraft out for not one week but two? 

I have yet to figure out how to be prosperous when I'm going to have significant portions of my fleet down at any one time.   

Any pointers on how best to handle this would be very appreciated! 

[demage]

Dazz, in my experience the budget airlines in Australia use both the front and rear doors for boarding and disembarking.  This would make it a faster turn around than those that only use the front door in particular the larger and longer aircraft.  You pull in and the out baggage is sitting ready to go and there are empty trailers waiting for the bags to come off.  And yes the flight attendants do the cleaning of the plane between flights.

[Sami]

btw. for the turnarounds, out of general interest ..  a standard turnaround with A319 with approx 70-90% load factor today, after 2 hr international flight, cleaning + refuelling --> turnaround time was 45 minutes (block to block). No extra delay from any source, everything was done with Swiss precision ..

[dazz81]

Wow they are slow sami:p

Boeing 737-300 fully loaded, turned around and refuelled, re-catered at Bangkok Suvarnabhumi after 1hr domestic flight the other day in 25 minutes. Thailand - completely disorganised - yet they can achieve this. I know because I watched it pull in, everyone got out, and I got in it and flew to phuket. and yes thanks, i did enjoy my time laying on the beach in phuket kekeke of course there was no protests that day, so that helped.

[Andrej]

(...)
I know, I know.....reality right?  But for crying out loud.  They cost millions AND take the aircraft out for not one week but two? 
I have yet to figure out how to be prosperous when I'm going to have significant portions of my fleet down at any one time.   
Any pointers on how best to handle this would be very appreciated! 

As written in the Manual of the game, you should initially buy/lease aircraft with no expected C/D checks in the next few months. I know it's not always possible, specially with the lack of used airplanes, but that was a good tip for me. After 9-10 months I had to deal with many C checks, but with enough spare money, so that those didn't bothered the operations, just a little bit less profit.

A month ago I forgot to do program a B check to an aircraft of my fleet and suddenly I was fined USD 200.000 by the Civil Aviation Administration. This game rocks man! 

A known quote came to my mind: "Do you think maintenance is expensive? So why don't you try with an accident?"


BTW, I've flown on AirOne twice: Rome-Venice, Venice-Rome. It seemed they needed more than 2 hours to turn around a CRJ-900. Always late.

[EAT CEO]

Regarding B757 v A321:

Do keep in mind that, generally speaking, the A321 will have containerised lower-decks whereas the B757 is always loose-loaded. Even a B757 fitted with a flying carpet, un-loading and loading of bags & cargo will take longer on a B757 than A321. This justifies, in my opinion, the longer turn-around times the B757 commands.

[dazz81]

May i refer you to
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/acaps/753sec5.pdf

an official boeing document. which gives a Boeing 757-200 a turnaround time of: about 39 minutes. A B757-300, about 54 minutes. Both of those are at the 'turn-around' stations. the 'en route' stations are lower.

Boeing 767 is quoted 40 minutes by BOEING.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/acaps/767sec5.pdf
And that is exactly as airlines like Qantas do domestically in Australia. BOEING quote 13 minutes to board passengers on a 767-300ER. I previously stated Qantas board a B767 about 15 to 20 mins prior to departure and was kind of laughed at by sami? even though I have boarded QF 767's dozens of times on domestic runs in Australia. Anyway there is documents for ground servicing from Boeing at their website for all aircraft here http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/plan_manuals.html


some other Boeing quoted times

737-300 = 27 mins
747-400 = 60 mins
777-200 = 45 mins
MD11 = 51.4 mins
MD80 = 33.5 mins (with airbridge being used)

[Pike]

As written in the Manual of the game, you should initially buy/lease aircraft with no expected C/D checks in the next few months. I know it's not always possible, specially with the lack of used airplanes, but that was a good tip for me. After 9-10 months I had to deal with many C checks, but with enough spare money, so that those didn't bothered the operations, just a little bit less profit.

A month ago I forgot to do program a B check to an aircraft of my fleet and suddenly I was fined USD 200.000 by the Civil Aviation Administration. This game rocks man! 

A known quote came to my mind: "Do you think maintenance is expensive? So why don't you try with an accident?"


BTW, I've flown on AirOne twice: Rome-Venice, Venice-Rome. It seemed they needed more than 2 hours to turn around a CRJ-900. Always late.

Yes, thanks I have read the manual several times.  It's really kinda common sense not to lease a plane with a major check coming up. 

Still doesn't really resolve the issue of having entire fleets of aircraft down at the same time.  Ah well, understanding will come, all in good time I guess.

[farechiga]

In relation to turn around times............

Southwest Airlines routinely turns thier 737's of varying sub types in well under 25 minutes, usually closer to 20 minutes. I have also been witness to a 10 minute turn at Dallas Love Field by Southwest for a 737-700 completely full to the gills. They were running 45 minutes late from the previous departure point due to weather and hearded everyone in like cattle. That 10 minute turn was from the time the aircraft stopped at the jetway until we started our pushback. Now as I recall the majority of US based airlines are either on the brink of or have already been through bankruptcy, but venerable maverick Southwest has made money every quarter since the mid 70's just a couple of years after startup and has not looked back since. Yes they are a low cost no frills carrier but I love the work ethic they put in. I have seen pilots help clean the cabin as well as get on the tarmac and help unload the baggage. Now that's teamwork. To bad that can't be factored into the game at this time. just my 2 cents worth today!

Cheers!

[Pike]

Same here, about Southwest.

It's nothing for them to turn a fully loaded 73 in less than 20 minutes.

All in all, sounds like Sami has a plan which is good enough for me.

[masoniclight]

Just remember all.. as much as we love exactness and realistic things.. this is still A GAME... some parts of realism will be (and should be) stretched, omitted or glossed over for the enjoyment of the players and the game mechanics to not be overburdened with minute code just to make things "more realistic"... certainly, if we were REALLY CEOs of our newly made airlines.. then every aspect of reality better be looked at under a microscope, but as it is.. this is only a game and realism is nice but need not be overdone.

[Beni]

OK, another thought for ya:

C Checks are the bane of my existence, and might ruin this game for me.  OK, just kidding on that one. 

I know, I know.....reality right?  But for crying out loud.  They cost millions AND take the aircraft out for not one week but two? 

I have yet to figure out how to be prosperous when I'm going to have significant portions of my fleet down at any one time.   

Any pointers on how best to handle this would be very appreciated! 

Totally agree... C checks are necesary... but why dont we have an unasigned plane ready to "automatically" replace the ones under manteniance? This feature would help us very much.

[purpleairplane]

On the topic of turnarounds, here's my input for what it's worth.

I work for an airline based in Sydney, and we have Q400 Dash8's. In Sydney, which is the hub, they are given 30 minutes to turnaround, which is blocks to blocks. BTB is shutdown to wheels rolling, which of course includes deboarding, refuelling, catering, cleaning, boarding, loading bags & freight etc etc.. In the outerports, i.e. the destination port, they are given 20 minutes.

30 minutes at hub and 20 minutes at outports is what the beancounters work out as manageable on paper, and more often than not, it is manageable. I too am not sure that the 'minimum' turn times are 'minimal' enough.