Require pilots/Miscalculation

[JumboShrimp]

I think you should read the replies to your posts carefully, so that this is a conversation.

I have already said: recommend calculation method to determine req. crews for long-time flights.

As was stated before, the pilot requirement calculation is based on aircraft basis, not on flight basis.  I sincerely doubt it is going to change, and even if it is considered, it will be a very low priority.

The user must have a preliminary calculation. When user open a new flight/route, it's impossible to determine advance the expenses of cabin crews and flight attendant.

Since the pilot requirement is based on aircraft, not flight/route, the actual costs for a perticular flight depends on how well your aircraft is scheduled.  So the system can't tell ahead of time.

If you really want to know what it costs in terms of staff requirements for pilots, flight crew, just pick an aircraft, save a "before" picture of Personell, then schedule a flight (any flight), and save the "before" and "after" figures.  That's your requirement per aircraft.  (there may be some rounding involved).

The rest of the staff requirments (customer service, ground handling etc) does depend on flights.  For every route that is added to schedule, those other staff categories are incremented.  So in this particular case, some estimate per flight could be achieved, but since the staff requirment is calculated globally, some rounding will be happeneing.  You can hire half of a person.  Each person on staff is a unit, and everyone works full time.

[Sergey Goncharenko]

I think you should read the replies to your posts carefully, so that this is a conversation.

Maybe I don't understand?

How can I determine the crew expenses and other?
A concrete example (B-777-series fleet).
I think, that standart metod can be applied for help only:
1.   I must to now total flying hours of fleet
2.   I need to know proportion of the fleet 777-series.
3.   I need calculate INDIRECT other cost/expenses (administrative, pilots salary, marketing, etc.) and distributed result to the 777-series.

For example:
Pilots salary (777-series only)  = $ 2 232 230
Cabin crew salary (777-series only) = $ 165 655
Other (office rent, marketing, alliance fees) cost = $ 35 000 000
Total: $ 37 397 885

I've 5 B-777 series avircaft. Total flying hours (last month) – 2000 h (2000/5=400 h average 1 a/c)

Flying hours all fleets (all aircraft) – is (for example) 42000 h / month, thus, the proportion of B-777-series = 42000:2000=4,7%

The next step: $ 37 397 885 * 4.7% = $ 1 757 700 - this portion of other costs related to 777-series per month.

Therefore $ 1 757 700 : 5 aircraft = $ 351 540 for each a/c  a month, or $ 87 885 /week

The result on screen must be reduced amount $ 87 885 ...

[RushmoreAir]

Maybe I don't understand?

We understand that your way would be more accurate.

It is just too much work for Sami to change it from the current system, which works fairly well as it is.

[alexgv1]

Isn't the idea of indirect (or overhead costs) such as office rent that you don't rationalise them by unit time, etc. as they are a company wide thing. Or is the proportion of CEO salary to come out as an operating cost for every aircraft 

Maybe someone who does more accounting than me can clarify this.

[Sergey Goncharenko]

Maybe someone who does more accounting than me can clarify this.

For God's sake! )))
Practice shows that the leading Airlines in the world, the most typical cost structure that is used in calculating the economic efficiency of flights, is to break all the costs into 3 basic groups:
1 Direct variable costs
2. Direct fixed costs
3. Other quasi-fixed costs

Group 1 – Direct variable costs include:
-   Fueling
-   Navigation fees
-   Airports handling and servicing
-   Passenger taxes
-   Crew salary increment (for 1 h flight)

Group 2 – Direct-fixed costs include:
-   Leasing or amortization (if the plane own)
-   basing aircraft in airports
-   Maintenance (A,B,C-check) & repair (D-check)
-   Insurance
-   Crew training
-   Permanent part of crew salary

Group 3 - Other quasi-fixed costs include:
-   Office and representation rent
-   Marketing
-   Salary of other staff
-   Bank interests&fees
-   Penalties, taxes
Calculation of one flight hour for every a/c type.

Step 1. All expenses listed in group № 2 : flying hour concrete a/c type (or series)
Step 2. Expenses listed group № 3  must calculated by proportion (total flying time a/c type : a total flight times all aircraft).

For example. We have 36 aircraft Boieng 737-classic serie.
Total flying hours – 16500 h/month, or 40% of all fl-hours by Airline

Total costs by group № 2 – is $ 46 325 000
Total cost by group  № 3 – is $ 76 785 000, the proportion costs of group № 3 – is  $ 30 714 000  (76 785 000 * 40%).

How much cost 1 flight hour?

(46 325 000+30 714 000):16500=  $ 4 669

See true result at the screen below

[alexgv1]

For God's sake! )))
Practice shows that the leading Airlines in the world, the most typical cost structure that is used in calculating the economic efficiency of flights, is to break all the costs into 3 basic groups:
1 Direct variable costs
2. Direct fixed costs
3. Other quasi-fixed costs

......

Firstly I please ask that you would not take the Lord's name in vein as I find this offensive.

As for my comment, I meant maybe another player who works in finances can clarify what I said, I was not askin for them to give you a lesson as that would be patronising.

My comment was with regards to the group 3 variables as you have called them. Yes puttin them per flight would be good, but is this standard accounting practise? Your request is valid because right now all your aircraft can show profits and the airline still loses money from overheads. Whether this is necessary/worth it is another question. I'm not sure if the average armchair CEO will be able to calculate this in such depth.

[Sergey Goncharenko]

Yes puttin them per flight would be good, but is this standard accounting practise?

I think so.
Aeroflot, LOT, Austrian Arlines, Transaero, Alitalia (and other Airline which I constantly work) apply this metodic procedure.
Airline CEO makes the decision for opening or closing flights/routes in next cases:
1. In case of flight opening - preliminary financial report
2. In case of flight closing - actual financial report (for last 1-2 months, may be more)

Preliminary report for open flights/routes looks so (for example):

[alexgv1]

Ok now I am liking this now that you have presented the data in this figure. And maybe this analysis would be nice if it was available in game when deciding to open a route, although perhaps some estimations like fuel or pax will require opening up the game mechanics.

If you could work on this with Sami then this could be a beneficial feature (think advisors idea, CEO has data presented to them then makes the decisions rather than micromanaging the operations jobs like scheduling). Maybe that appeals to Sami to think of it as potential for advisor feature? I think Uran is trying to help improve the game with best intentions. Seems like he has expertise which could assist you.

[Sergey Goncharenko]

In 2003-2006 yy. I trained students for economy and management (Civil Aviation) in institutes in Moscow and St.-Petersburg ))

[Sami]

The direct/indirect costs is a thing what is missing here. And there have been plans for the financial update already for a longer time - it consists of balance sheet update and so on, and with that I am hoping to bring in the direct/indirect cost tables too.

However, with the current staff systems it will be impossible probably since staff cannot be easily allocated on single flights, and that is why it is not visible today either. Same with marketing and such things which never (apart from route marketing) cannot be directed to single flights fully properly, so getting a fully grown profit/loss figure with Doc & InDoc (or however they are shortened?) taken into account is difficult or not fully accurate.


And I have said it now three time already but will repeat once more since it seems to be a bit difficult... Any proper requests for adjustments or new features MUST be posted to the feature req forum (following the instructions there) - otherwise the discussion has probably no use as I never browse or search other forums than that one while searching for data on new features.

The planning cost estimation table looks good and clear, actually route planning page is due for an overhaul soon.

[vitongwangki]

And I have said it now three time already but will repeat once more since it seems to be a bit difficult... Any proper requests for adjustments or new features MUST be posted to the feature req forum (following the instructions there) - otherwise the discussion has probably no use as I never browse or search other forums than that one while searching for data on new features.

I think you can simply move this post to Feature Request forum 

[Sergey Goncharenko]

And I have said it now three time already but will repeat once more since it seems to be a bit difficult... Any proper requests for adjustments or new features MUST be posted to the feature req forum (following the instructions there) - otherwise the discussion has probably no use as I never browse or search other forums than that one while searching for data on new features.

Sami, I simply small-talk in this topic. If need concrete requests, I can prepare the long list (especially economics). When it will be ready, I'll publish special posted of a forum.

[alexgv1]

Sami, I simply small-talk in this topic. If need concrete requests, I can prepare the long list (especially economics). When it will be ready, I'll publish special posted of a forum.

Look forward to this hopefully can help improve game mechanics 

[Sergey Goncharenko]

Discussion continues here:
https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,38346.msg205128.html#msg205128