Airline Management or Airline Overkill Simulation?

[robmck]

I began playing this online game, under the misguided thought this was an Airline MANAGEMENT simulation, not a opportunity for players early into the game to swamp later players with over capacity.

When an competitor arrives at my base airport, and ONLY opens up routes in competition with me, and at 15 minute intervals, this is just ridiculous.

No real life airline would ever do anything like that - the economics don't make sense.

As a counter, I had to open a base at my major competitors base. In doing so my airline opened more than two dozen NEW highly profitable routes which my main competitor had ignored.

Isn't that the way the real airline business works?

I think that the organisers of this game, need to seriously look at the parameters that allow overcapacity, and multiple flights per hour to the same destination.

Frequency is king .. but not the extent that common sense goes out the window.

robmck

[Meicci]

...and multiple flights per hour to the same destination.

This is already fixed. I don't know the exact formula, but for example, route with ~100 demand needs at least one hour between flights, and high demand route (+1000 or more) needs only ~15 minutes.

Those numbers can be far from truth, but it explains how the system works.

[Curse]

I began playing this online game, under the misguided thought this was an Airline MANAGEMENT simulation, not a opportunity for players early into the game to swamp later players with over capacity.

You haven't began a long time ago, so maybe that's why you missed some points or why you are simply wrong in others.

When an competitor arrives at my base airport, and ONLY opens up routes in competition with me,

Obviously he uses his cash from his HQ to damage your airline. If your airline is managed not too bad, that doesn't work well.

and at 15 minute intervals, this is just ridiculous.

That's not forbidden, however, he has lots of disadvantages on flights that are schedules this tight - except on routes with >6000 pax/day etc.

No real life airline would ever do anything like that - the economics don't make sense.

Don't compare AirwaySim to real world. In AWS you have a start and end date everybody knows - there's no need for a fleet replacement 2 years before gameworld end etc. Also some people love to try various strategies.

As a counter, I had to open a base at my major competitors base.

You had not to do so. It was your decision and when your HQ airport wasn't out of slots or routes, it was a stupid decision, let me quote that "No real life airline would ever do"

In doing so my airline opened more than two dozen NEW highly profitable routes which my main competitor had ignored.

Maybe he's a newbie, maybe he has other concepts in mind, maybe he simply hates all airports starting with letter L. Ask him if you want an answer.

Isn't that the way the real airline business works?

We should ask all the real life CEOs around here.

I'm one of the most successful player in running (very) big airlines at AWS and I have absolutely no idea about real world airlines. In fact I haven't visited an airport for several years and never flown with an aircraft.

However, that doesn't mean the game is bad. It's just easier if you are able to decide on previous experiences with fake money and a gameworld taking 2-8 month.

I think that the organisers of this game, need to seriously look at the parameters that allow overcapacity, and multiple flights per hour to the same destination.

You mean oversupply routes like Emirates does in real world massively? With oil money given from goverment? There are rules in AWS - for example a maximum of 199% of demand offered by each airline - and these rules are enough to keep it fair and interesting.

If you start losing money because somebody copies your routes with much more efficient aircraft you were the fool who chose these inefficient aircraft.

Frequency is king ..

In fact King Airways is King. Frequency is a variable that is a bit too focused in AWS, however, it went total out of control. Throwing endless frequency on routes has at least as many disadvantages than advantages.

[ukatlantic]

high demand route (+1000 or more) needs only ~15 minutes.

Those numbers can be far from truth, but it explains how the system works.

Even on high demand routes if you schedule flights at 15 minute intervals it still doenst benefit you as your load factor is split directly between the 2 flights. I know as I inadvertantly had 2 flights within 25 minutes of each other on a 2500 pac aday route and between those 2 flights the capcity was split directly between the 2.

@ Curse - you are only sucessful at running big airlines because you constantly find 'loopholes' to exploit for your own/alliances benefit and never really play within the spirit of the game as it was intended!

[Meicci]

As I said, numbers in my post aren't facts.

Only fact I know is, that you can have flights with 35min interval, if the demand is +3000, and not being penalized.

[JumboShrimp]

I began playing this online game, under the misguided thought this was an Airline MANAGEMENT simulation, not a opportunity for players early into the game to swamp later players with over capacity.

It is a management simulation.  Not a sandbox, there is some competition.  As far as starting late in the game world, you have to be extra agile to make it.  You are starting at a disadvantage.  But that is similar to real world.  If you start a business where there are a number of established competitors, you have to be extra agile, and find your niche...

When an competitor arrives at my base airport, and ONLY opens up routes in competition with me, and at 15 minute intervals, this is just ridiculous.

No real life airline would ever do anything like that - the economics don't make sense.

As a counter, I had to open a base at my major competitors base. In doing so my airline opened more than two dozen NEW highly profitable routes which my main competitor had ignored.

Isn't that the way the real airline business works?

Maybe he sees you as a threat?

As far as your "counter", probably not a good move, but you will learn that by playing more...

I think that the organisers of this game, need to seriously look at the parameters that allow overcapacity, and multiple flights per hour to the same destination.

Frequency is king .. but not the extent that common sense goes out the window.

Some of the things you mention (limits to overcapacity, limits to #of flights / hour) have been addressed.  But the frequency (with times spread out) is still king...   AWS continues to be developped and fine tuned, and you can contribute to this by making constructive comments, feature requests etc.

[JumboShrimp]

As I said, numbers in my post aren't facts.

Only fact I know is, that you can have flights with 35min interval, if the demand is +3000, and not being penalized.

35 minutes can be used for 1000 pax route.

On 3000 pax route, you can go lower, probably down to 20-25 minutes.

Those are just my observations...

[vitongwangki]

When an competitor arrives at my base airport, and ONLY opens up routes in competition with me, and at 15 minute intervals, this is just ridiculous.

As a counter, I had to open a base at my major competitors base. In doing so my airline opened more than two dozen NEW highly profitable routes which my main competitor had ignored.

If you are mentioning GoFly in Egypt from Elite Alliance, I won't feel surprise because he is the one can abuse the frequency bonus using 739 tech-stop on SIN-CAI, while he himself flying another 764 already on that route. That's his gameplay style I don't admire, and we can see how his airline value rank (even he controls several bases of Egypt)

If you can fly two dozens of profitable ignored route, I think you are qualified to teach him on new market research.  

[alexgv1]

No real life airline would ever do anything like that - the economics don't make sense.

With respect, I can name many instances where airlines have  done this aggressive competition to a newcomer... look at what the legacy airlines did when the low costs moved in.

To name a few, Aer Lingus on Ryanair... Easyjet on Go... United Shuttle on SWA...

[Miller11]

Well, I thought it was about time I put an end to this rubbish.

I pm'd BKS several game years ago and explained that Hurghada would be my third base, (also in a press release) gave him some tips. i.e increase CI increase frequency use correct A/c for route.........Trying to help a new guy out.....he came back with "it's only a game" but here he is complaining to you guys that I am playing unfairly. until the earlier part of this week I only had 20-25A/c at Hurghada 7 of those where 757s only routed over 3 days as I had not got round to finishing the routes off. He chose to open up at Cairo instead of say Luxor and added 2 more fleet types 767-200 on lease x 5 and 787 x 5 also on lease I think some of the 762s fly to Miami, If I really wanted to go after this guy then we all know that I would target both of these fleet types, which would include flying from Cairo to Miami, I HAVE NOT DONE SO.

I would like to know on what route I fly every 15mins from Hurghada......... Come on BKS back up your statement.
I also have not targeted his routes deliberately and that is why I fly from Hurghada on some routes he does not.
Now for anyone else feeling sorry for BKS and think that I am targeting him unfairly let me say this. I have 25A/c sat without a route and 100 A/c on order. We all know I could take him out in a heart beat but I have not, I have helped this guy with advice and opened up routes slowly in Hurghada. Yes I have ordered an extra fleet type to combat the E-jets that He ordered. I have as yet not I repeat NOT added any extra routes at Cairo that he has set up on.


Summary.

BKS will fail because he does not know how the game works, he also does not listen to advice. Surely his Alliance members have also been giving him advice. This guy has 138 A/c 5 types with another on order. His pax numbers are going up each week so he should be making money (His value is still rising) Please take a look at his stats you will all see why he is struggling.

On a personal note CRY WOLF SPRINGS TO MIND

Miller11 

[JumboShrimp]

The simulation tries to simulate real life, but there are limitations (which may become future enhancement of the game).  For example, the Sim does not recognize time of day.  So you may have a demand of 300, and fly at 0600, 0700, 0800, and it is just as good as if you were flying at 0600, 1200, 1800.  You used to be able to fly 3 different flight taking off on the same minute, say 0600, 0600, 0600, but that has been kind of addressed.

Then, there is no passenger connection feature, which is another level of realism that the Sim does not have today, but may have some day.

The main developer (Sami) takes users' feedback and suggestions, so if you feel like contributing, you are certainly welcome to.

[Sami]

Note: Please keep possible personal issues out of this thread, a couple of messages had to be removed.

[Kadachiman]

Yet another 'I call foul umpire' thread.

Why do people think they have the right to complain about how another player plays his/her game?
Do you think that everybody thinks the same way?
As long as they play by the rules then its their money so they can play the game how they like.
If people can't handle how others play online games well take the option to play a PC game against yourself or against your computer.

Regards Darryl

[Miller11]

Note: Please keep possible personal issues out of this thread, a couple of messages had to be removed.

My apologies for any personal comments made.

Miller11

[Monk Xion]

Yet another 'I call foul umpire' thread.

Why do people think they have the right to complain about how another player plays his/her game?
Do you think that everybody thinks the same way?
As long as they play by the rules then its their money so they can play the game how they like.
If people can't handle how others play online games well take the option to play a PC game against yourself or against your computer.

Regards Darryl

I second this. It used to be much more relaxed