Borrow money to buy plane and use it as security

[dobbs1996]

I think we should be able to borrow money from the bank to buy an airplane and then use the aircraft as a security.
Does anyone agree?

[flightsimer]

im pretty sure thats exactly what i did two weeks ago... 

[wapp11]

I think we should be able to borrow money from the bank to buy an airplane and then use the aircraft as a security.
Does anyone agree?

Yeah you can do that over and over, you just have to be able to get enough money to buy the first aircraft.

[dobbs1996]

Ye but i mean borrow it like a house like a mortgage but for an aircraft.

[flightsimer]

Ye but i mean borrow it like a house like a mortgage but for an aircraft.

and the difference from now is what?

you are making weekly payment. you can use that aircraft as a security for your next loan, which if you default on they will take the aircraft...

[thedr2]

He means using the aircraft as a security in the loan to buy it in the first place. It's not the same. 

[Ghosty]

As in the bank finances part of the cost of the aircraft. And then the player puts the remaining amount up himself.
Like getting a mortgage, the bank pays a percentage of the cost of the house and the buyer then pays the remaining percentage.

[dobbs1996]

He means using the aircraft as a security in the loan to buy it in the first place. It's not the same.
exactly.

[Sigma]

The problem with that is that, unlike real-life, a purchased plane in AWS is virtually guarnateed to make many, MANY times its purchase costs.  Unless you're doing something blatantly wrong you're going to make money hand over fist in this game.  So there's no virtually no risk to purchasing a plane.  If one could borrow money using the purchased plane as security, then anyone with an ounce of sense is going to immediately go and purchase as many planes as that 'feature' would allow them to because they can be certain they're going to easily pay off the loan.  Growth would be 50 times faster than it already is today and order queues at suppliers would be even longer.

[DenisG]

Just beautiful, I really miss those asset backed securities from the times before the financial crisis hit...

Cheers,
Denis

[dobbs1996]

Still i think we should be able to do this.

[Curse]

That's nice for you.

[thedr2]

It's a fair idea, and yes it's done all the time in real life. But I think swiftus is right, there are some non-realistic factors in AWS which would basically make it a free money service.

[dobbs1996]

yes but if you can only borrow money based on your credit rating up to a set amount it would work.

[Curse]

The game's still too easy and everything in this direction would it make even more easy.

[Dave4468]

The game's still too easy and everything in this direction would it make even more easy.

This is a comment you seem to make an awful lot of the time and it really annoys me.

AWS is easy if you know how to make it easy, if you have been here for many years and know how to play this game, both properly and exploiting loopholes (not necessarily you but many big players I've seen do that) then yes it's easy, normally because players like you base at the big airports, know how to play them and squish everyone else who tries. Those of us who are not the AWS gods like you who end up at smaller airports stuck making no money with useless aircraft and having to see if stuff likes this works and if its possible. I like to think I'm not terrible at this and try to base and secondary airports and all I end up with is a measly profit per week while behemoths like you claim it is too easy.

Why don't players like you who like to claim how easy it is to become massive stop basing in London, Tokyo, Paris and Chicago and using all the short fat route and frequency tricks and play in some smaller airports and let some others base in the big airports.

[dobbs1996]

I have to agree with Dave it is not that easy starting up in a small airport with all the big airlines hogging the slots in major airports. Give someone else a turn.

[Curse]

This is a comment you seem to make an awful lot of the time and it really annoys me.

If requests stop to make this game even easier, I stop to annoy you with my opinion.

AWS is easy if you know how to make it easy,

That's not true. If one reads the manual carefully, the FAQ and Guide that can be found here in this forum and maybe some other threads around, it's no big deal to be successful - or at least not to fail.

What makes people fail is their impatience and the absence of wisdom because they haven't read the manual and/or the FAQ and Guide.


I face this very often. In Alliance forums, in public forums and via PM people ask me for help.

if you have been here for many years and know how to play this game,

That's not true either. I know many people that haven't failed many times, some also had success since their first game because they prepared and read the forums and started low - including myself. So again I know what I'm talking about.

and exploiting loopholes (not necessarily you but many big players I've seen do that) then yes it's easy,

Yeah, all big players have this cool money cheat. But pssscht, don't tell anybody, it's a secret.

Seriously. That's something that faces every good player. We were called cheaters in Counter-Strike, we were called cheaters in World of Warcraft and now we are called cheaters in AirwaySim.
Unfortunately insulting other people doesn't improve the position of the failed, mostly because it's not the fault of good players some others fail.

normally because players like you base at the big airports,

Yeah. And why? Because AirwaySim is based on static demand. I'd love to base at Stuttgart or Kansas City or Tahiti. But as long as most routes have a demand of 3 pax/day I'm not going to waste my time with this.

Also basing at a big airport doesn't make things easier. Everybody flies into your base and many people go there to base by themselves.

know how to play them and squish everyone else who tries.

That's insulting and simply wrong.

It's not easy to push players out of the game, especially at the beginning where every route is uncovered. I checked many airlines of the alliance I'm part in DotM#2 and I exactly know why people failed against very good players like Pai or DanDante.
It was no single time because those pushed them out. No. The players that competed with them made some very bad business desicions, throwing their airline away by themselves. And they know it, because they wrote it in their farewell.

That's by the way something you should learn, too. Look at your own actions instead of blaming the bad big guys all around there.

Those of us who are not the AWS gods like you who end up at smaller airports stuck making no money with useless aircraft and having to see if stuff likes this works and if its possible.

You making a fool out of yourself if you really believe this. Why exactly "AWS gods" (whatever this is) are responsible for other people's actions?

I'll tell you something. In Tokyo Haneda, my current base, we were six airlines at first. Now all others are gone. Why? Because I pushed them out? No.

Even this would be ok in my opinion because we all started at the same moment, I will tell you why exactly they failed:
Two of them used 747-200 domestic, getting crushed when these two guys out of Fukuoka start to fill up the route.
One player used very old and small aircraft, maybe tried to hog slots, and the costs for the slots made him poor. The C-Check season lead him to the decision to give up.
The next one used 727-100 mainly, not a very efficient aircraft, and some day he just left. I don't know why, haven't competed with him.

And yesterday the last guy left. He flew with his 11 aircraft to over 25 destinations but still managed it somehow to make profit. He used this profit to add two more fleet categories to his existing four, one of them A300 he send on a big route where my MD-81 and B732Adv are on. No wonder he failed but he wasn't BKd, he just gave up.

So is it now my fault people choose wrong aircraft? Is it my fault they do stupid schedules while in every fourth thread in this forums stands "stick to less routes as possible"? Is it my fault people just leave the game?

I like to think I'm not terrible at this and try to base and secondary airports and all I end up with is a measly profit per week while behemoths like you claim it is too easy.

You base at small airports and wonder why some people run big and successful airlines and you're not? Is this really a question one must answer to you?

And yes, it is too easy. I have justified why.

Why don't players like you who like to claim how easy it is to become massive stop basing in London, Tokyo, Paris and Chicago and using all the short fat route and frequency tricks and play in some smaller airports and let some others base in the big airports.

Because I pay credits to have fun. And my fun is to create good and at least half-way big airlines. This isn't possible out of Unalaska due to static demand system.

And, honestly. People aren't just successful because they base at a big airport. No skill is no skill, even the base changed from Glasgow or Cologne to Heathrow or Tokyo.

I have to agree with Dave it is not that easy starting up in a small airport with all the big airlines hogging the slots in major airports. Give someone else a turn.

Why? In my first game (Euro Challenge) I was massevily under attack by two others basing out of Palma de Mallorca and two very good players, SAC and Nonkan, (tried to) use(d) my airport as ABCBA hub. And I still managed to survive and made it very well till the end of the game.

Your attitude is why Valve made Counter-Strike (Source) easy, Blizzard made the WoW raids and heroic instances easy etc. Nobody is willing to invest some time and brain. Everybody is in need of the big fat success without doing anything.

But let me say - people with this attitude would also fail even sami gave them hundred A330-300 at the game world start and exclusive slots. They are always digging their own graves.

[Jona L.]

This is a comment you seem to make an awful lot of the time and it really annoys me.

AWS is easy if you know how to make it easy, if you have been here for many years and know how to play this game, both properly and exploiting loopholes (not necessarily you but many big players I've seen do that) then yes it's easy, normally because players like you base at the big airports, know how to play them and squish everyone else who tries. Those of us who are not the AWS gods like you who end up at smaller airports stuck making no money with useless aircraft and having to see if stuff likes this works and if its possible. I like to think I'm not terrible at this and try to base and secondary airports and all I end up with is a measly profit per week while behemoths like you claim it is too easy.

Why don't players like you who like to claim how easy it is to become massive stop basing in London, Tokyo, Paris and Chicago and using all the short fat route and frequency tricks and play in some smaller airports and let some others base in the big airports.

Well, I am annoyed by people like you flying anything under B747/777 class aircraft into LHR, hogging the slots. I in fact go to the big Airports becuase I want to have something to do, and not be finished with looking into my airline for 2 minutes. Yes, you guys have no chance at the big airports, but hell, don't complain, change something: Go practice!! I have started off in DUS, DEL, and several other places the first 3 months of me playing this game, just to learn the freaking basics. Then I went to LHR, and ever since I do well there. So you should learn the basics and get some kind of know-how, and then try again at the big airports.
Don't blame others for your fail, find your errors!

I know I might sound arrogant or holding one of my "big-boys speeches" but I don't intend to give you people sh*t. My point (at least this time) is, that even we big guys [except Curse] have had to play some not so great times till we got so big. Excepting Curse because he was top-10 straight out.
For all of us practice is the way to go.

That as my 2 cents to this.

Jona L.

[Curse]

I know I might sound arrogant ...

Honestly I hate this behaviour. Why it's a must to disclaim if one is good or better than others in such a specific category?

Yeah, we now could do all friendly and tell things like "Don't be sad, guys, everybody is able to be successful" but that's not true. Some people failed every time in the past and will fail every time in the future. They might have other category groups where they are successful in a similar way and are also allowed to be arrogant.