Borrow money to buy plane and use it as security

[flightsimer]

He means using the aircraft as a security in the loan to buy it in the first place. It's not the same. 

However, thats not what he had said...

he said buy the plane and then use it as securities, which is how it is now. He should have originally been more clear.

[kone_alta]

I think somewhere we are getting wires crossed. In the previous MT world (the one before the current one) I was Karoo Air (and always have been) and did go BK because of a big fleet of B747s.

That is why I planned to avoid them in the current MT3 world but I got pushed out by yourself IIRC when you made a very big A340 order and duplicated my routes.

I don't know if my playing skills have improved. I don't get the chance to try them again in a similar place.

We've met in MT2 and current MT4 instead as I remember  to be honest at that time (MT2) you were holding various fleet group like DC-9, DC-10, 737, 747 classics,744, etc. But the most fatal factor is the 747SP you were operating with, high fuel burn yet low capacity.(remember the 4X DC10 flying in MT2? It really save alot  )

For MT4, I think we were playing in different approach and our CI rised at the same rate, however you started having other fleet group while I keep on sticking with my old DC10, and finally phrasing it out with A330/340/77E step by step. Those 21x346HGW doesnt really cutting as much cost as single fleet group. . Moreover as what you've said, South Africa is not a place for shorthaul flight(likewise in Cape town, the domestic demand is so slim that I wont open a base there). if you get all sorts of planes to fill the demand at first place, you can hardly lease the second longhaul plane which means slower growth and behind your competitors.

Maybe I am those annoying player you've mentioned; exploiting all the profitable routes in FAJS, duplicate flying your routes, etc. But if you take the right step and not overdoing, I guess it will be another scenario. 

[Dave4468]

We've met in MT2 and current MT4 instead as I remember  to be honest at that time (MT2) you were holding various fleet group like DC-9, DC-10, 737, 747 classics,744, etc. But the most fatal factor is the 747SP you were operating with, high fuel burn yet low capacity.(remember the 4X DC10 flying in MT2? It really save alot  )

That wasn't me. I only ever operate as Karoo Air from Jo'burg. MT4 is the only time I've met you. And I've never flown 747SP. MT3 I was the only successful airline to operate from Jo'burg, you were not there. I ran a fleet of B744, B744ER, B75s, B767s and B777s. I got killed by the B747s, I was too impatient to wait longer to get B77Ws. I also tried running a base at FACT.

For MT4, I think we were playing in different approach and our CI rised at the same rate, however you started having other fleet group while I keep on sticking with my old DC10, and finally phrasing it out with A330/340/77E step by step. Those 21x346HGW doesnt really cutting as much cost as single fleet group. . Moreover as what you've said, South Africa is not a place for shorthaul flight(likewise in Cape town, the domestic demand is so slim that I wont open a base there). if you get all sorts of planes to fill the demand at first place, you can hardly lease the second longhaul plane which means slower growth and behind your competitors.

All I remember is I had a few B767s and possibly a B777 and you seemed to have gone dormant, I was happily chugging along filling up long haul African destinations with the B767s and adding a B772 to LHR when I got one. All of a sudden you just turned up with a handful of DC-10s, took LHR by storm and then the massive orders came... Not a mistake I'm going to make again.

[sbond101]

Dobbs,

Im a realitively new player here (about a month). I've built up an airline that clears about 1.5 million a week out of koala lumpur, with three airlines starting up at my airport about the same time. Thats a fair bit of money in the late 1960's (Jet age scienario). My biggest problem right now is that other airlines that are much less profitable then mine are still in buisness, and take up slots that I might otherwise be able to use. If the game was more difficult, there would probably still be slots available for me to fly into london or Hong Kong and compete with those airlines. As it stands, those airlines dont have to be that careful about not flying unprofitable routes because of the incredible profit margins that good routes offer in AWS.

I think the feature of loaning on aircraft that your going to buy, with a rate based on the credit-worthiness of the customer would be fantastic. That being said, untill the profit margins in airwaysim are reduced to more rational levels (through increased landing/airport fees to reflect reality), this feature would only improve the dominate position of the large airlines that use frequency to dominate short haul routes and as a consequence slot block at the largest airports.

Steve