Too much time, too little information

[BigWing]

Hi,

The game looks great, and I hope it will be a success, but your PR is awful.  I registered over a month ago, and registered for the newsletter.  Since then, I have had no news.  I am a professional software consultant, with expertise in test, and a light load for the last month, and I would have been a GREAT Beta tester.  Since the site and forums were littered with statements that the Beta programme was closed, and not to be a pest, I respected that.  I  don't think I got much respect in return.

Maybe this simulation will be worth paying for, and maybe it won't.  One thing is sure though.  I don't see why I should have to pay for a game, just to get my rear handed to me in a box, by all the less qualified beta testers who have had 6 weeks to learn the best strategies.

So, to the team behind this production, next time, either keep the Beta programme open to well qualified applicants, or keep the entire project private, until you are READY to go public.

Dissapointed, Big Wing.

[Sami]

There has been no news as there hasn't been anything new to inform over the last weeks.

And the beta is closed for public as already mentioned. That's because we wanted to select the group that tests it, and also limit it (to a couple of hundred people). And the policy has been and still is that posting to forum, emailing or PM'ing us asking "if I can be a tester etc.etc." will most definitely not give you a spot there, no matter of possible "qualifications". Plus we're already getting close to the end of the beta so no people are added whatever comes..

So basically what I am sensing from this message is that you are not happy because you didn't get to play, and also mocking people as unprofessionals who have helped in the testing process? Or? Why even post then?

[BigWing]

Please don't miss-represent me.  I didn't mock any of the Beta Testers, professional or otherwise.  Neither did I say I was unhappy at not getting to play.  Neither did I ask to be a beta tester; if I was going to do that, I would have done so when I joined.

I pointed out, for the benefit of the production team, that advertising the product too far in advance, has caused a large number of potential customers to become less likely to use your service.

Let me answer your question, "Why even post then?".  I posted, as I assumed that the producers of a service who hoped to charge for it, in a market dominated by free-at-point-of-use products, would respond to my concerns with curtesy and professionalism.  I am not sure if your insulting response is was deliberate, or the result of inexpert use of the English language.  Either way, it's a problem I suggest you address, before taking money from United Kingdom residents, who have a great deal of protection under consumer law.

[Sami]

I understood that you didn't ask to be one now, just pointed out (yet again) how the acceptance was done. However I did get the feeling from your post that you would have wanted to be one with your background knowledge helping that possibly. Also didn't then quite understand the point about these "less qualified beta testers".... What makes them less qualified?  (you see my point now?)

The beta test slots were handed out in late summer before the testing begun, and people who were then registered to the newsletter were all automatically invited (if they fullfilled the requirements). Keeping the beta application process open all the time would have taken too much time from us I believe.. To check the applications and process them - and then reply to emails and questions that "why you didn't accept me" etc etc. Much easier to send the invitations in one bunch to the large group of people already available and ask them to apply if they are interested and then process all those in one bunch - what we did. That left more time to the actual thing in hand - developing this sim.

And I have to point out that there has been delay in the release and we're lagging behind the schedule, but things are progressing nicely all the time.

[BigWing]

I understand your reasons for closing the Beta test, and we have all experienced project slip, so let me try to make my point more constructive.  When the game does launch, there will be two groups of people; those chosen for Beta Test, and those not.  As a member of the second group, and (perhaps not relevant to you) one who would have contributed greatly to the Beta Test, I feel at a diss-advantage competing against game experts.  For instance, I really don't feel like paying two dollars, (or whatever it will be) to play in a game with me and 499 Beta Testers.

So, my CONSTRUCTIVE SUGGESTION is that when the service opens, you have some Games which are open only to players, closed to the privilliged few Beta testers.  That way, we can make our mistakes, and learn together, instead of just being cannon fodder for the illuminati.

I guess I have finished with this point, and my opinion is on record, for which thank you.  From my point of view, the subject can be closed.
Regards,
Big Wing.

[Sami]

Now I figured out the point. That wasn't very clear in the first post ... at least to me. But I am not that smart.

For that issue - the current Beta #2 game will continue to run after the release, as it is rather long. It will be available to current beta group only. And the beta group consisted originally of about 250-300 players or so but all of them are not active at the moment, so that scenario of having 50/50 (or more) experienced/newbies is highly unlikely.

But there is a great deal to learn when starting an airline here, no question about that. Manual is not yet done but a simple one-page startup tutorial is already done and that should help to start up the carrier. However I do not think that having experienced competition is a big problem (as long as it's not in that 1/499 ratio), as you most likely are able to screw up the airline all by yourself too. You don't need others for that    (though having seen the game in action before does help you, as the first airline at least is 100% learning)

[Sundaypilot]

I must say that I got exactly same feeling from the first message by Big Wing as Sami. Maybe you as a native english speaker should more carefully write in a way that also non-native speakers can understand you correctly.

I think Big Wings last suggestion is reasonable. Thus I don't believe there will be 499 beta testers against one player in any case. More likely there will be 400 new players with 100 beta testers. And if there is 500 players, it will be extra demanding for everyone. There hasn't been that many players in any beta, there has been lots of empty airports to start without competition. Won't be the case if there is 500 players...

[Sami]

As a side note 500 players is too much for a 1960s game for example - IF we wish to follow the realworld pax development. That can be changed of course but it's not that realistic then .. So for early games the player limit will be probably lower, or then the pax numbers have to be increased for those worlds. Both technically possible...

[Ffylip]

I can see both sides of the argument on this one.  On Big Wing's side I can see why he (and other non-beta testers) might be reluctant to pay to start an airline when they are likely to make all sorts of mistakes and end up going bankrupt while playing against others who've had the chance to make all their mistakes during the beta-test when it didn't cost them anything.  On the other side of the coin, anyone who joins any internet sim at anything other than the very start inevitably finds themselves playing against more experienced players, and this will be no different.

Maybe a compromise solution would be to make each new player's first airline free.  That way they can work out all the things not to do on a game where they haven't had to pay anything.  It might also have the advantage of encouraging people who aren't sure if it's worth the money to sign up and have ago, as it doesn't cost them anything - I for one am confident that anyone who plays the sim will see that it is well worth putting out the cash to play again and again.

Phil

[Sami]

Actually if you see the rules have changed some weeks ago a bit after the "airline ceo" update. If you go bust, you are allowed to start a new airline without any cost. If you however go bust because you have not logged in for two weeks, then you are kicked out from the game and need to rejoin if you wish to continue. But in that case too you'll get a credit refund depending on how many days there are left in the game. ( ((days left / total days)*cost)-3 is the formula).

And plus.. each member IS allowed to join a free demo game once (after making a purchase that limit is cleared so he can join another demo). Those are just to test the system and to see how it works.

[masoniclight]

Demos are always good as are two week trials of any game, especially MMOs.. anyway, as I see it, no matter what.. whether you are going against beta testers who are now game "veterans" for all intensive purposes, or whether you are going against newbies as yourself.. there really isnt an inherant "right way" to do things..

Let me explain: a number crunching math loving, problem solving type may find all the accounting ways fun to try in game and has a lot of success due to his or her skills but that does not mean that a very creative thinker or someone unfraid of failure will do better or worse than this math guy or gal..

if someone finds a great way to do business a certain way, Great! But that doesnt mean its the ONLY way to be successful... there are "100 ways to skin a cat" as the old axiom says.. same is true for MMOs.

There will always be "min maxers" as we old gamers used to call them, there will always be "roleplayers" and there will always be "casual gamers" etc.. all of them can be successful in any game but dont expect same outcomes or same results just because their personalities are what they are...

Any good game has more than one way to enjoy and succeed in..

[moxiepilot]

Interesting discussion.  IMHO Sami and his team has done nothing incorrectly; has not chased away potential revenue, and has not incorrectly selected BETA testers.

The BETA testers represent an actual cross-section of the public which will play in the future.  I'm a software developer (ALPHA/BETA tester, writer, creative director, and subject matter expert), but I don't have a great sense of MMO's and the best way to develop an airline. 

Most people playing are not going to be the best at any MMO unless they have a ton of free time.  In all the airline simulation games I have played, I have not EVER been the best, not close too it.  I play it for fun.  There will always be someone more experienced who has more knowledge and will do better than you at whatever you pursue.  The best option is to learn from others by asking questions.


Sure there will be a ramp up period when going public, but will all the input the BETA testers have given this board, I think more excitement has been generated vs. making people angry and not wanting to play.

$.02

[Jps]

One way to get new players quicker on to play might be to release the manual a few days earlier than the launch of the game itself.
This would give the new players some time to think about their strategies and what they want to do in the beginning.