How to ease new player entrance after world has started?

[Sami]

It is obvious that entering a crowded game world after it's 50% mark is harder than starting at the 0% mark with virtually no competition.

However in some cases it may be a bit too hard for new players to join in at an existing world, especially if some players choose to use a bit of unfair tactics to cope with the competition (mainly to use their powers to take down the newcoming small firm). Of course this is part of the system and we really cannot start to limit what players can do and how they can manage their airlines. But I would still like to see some improvements to how new players can enter the world more easily at later stages.

Any thoughts on this matter?

[Kazari]

You could have a sliding scale of introductory money, which increases a little each day.

[Kazari]

You could increase their CI at a greater rate the later they apply.

[Dasha]

I think what you can do is 'release' the planes at the 80 or 90% marker or even at 100%

That way everybody can join in ease and pick a base and then when the game time has started, the planes are released. This would be the most fair option for players all around the world.

[Sergey Goncharenko]

If we want realism, we must apply the logic. Ten years ago, for create new airline need finance much less than now. Thus, one decision only - increase the initial capital. This year, in Russia created a new airline "Avianova" (based in UUWW - Vnukovo). Start capital is estimated about 500 million rubles (11 million euro).

[Sami]

The startup fund already increases with the same amount as the yearly in-game inflation. So even joining at a later time you will still have the SAME money as the first guys. But it would be useful to increase it a bit more perhaps than just the inflation?

[Sundaypilot]

I feel that if you start later the biggest problem is lack of suitable aircraft.

When airlines start to grow, all decent planes are sucked from the market immediately.
So maybe giving some kind of priority to used aircraft for new companies could help.

[Sergey Goncharenko]

I feel that if you start later the biggest problem is lack of suitable aircraft.

When airlines start to grow, all decent planes are sucked from the market immediately.
So maybe giving some kind of priority to used aircraft for new companies could help.

Оh! No! This will turn the simulator into a simple game.
In this case, the problem should be solved comprehensively. Any airline is not created just from epty space, each airline has a specific purpose. The user must research the market and take their place in it - especially at those airports where there passenger demand is    dissatisfied. No any airline in the real world is not created with the sole aim of the competition. For the new airline is no there discount and special conditions for the purchase and leasing. It was the opposite: manufacturers provide discounts already known airlines.
The success of the new airline depends entirely from investors, the initial capitals. In any case, the first two years of the new airline makes a loss. The solution - increase the initial capital, and to systematize the passenger demand in accordance with the real opportunity to create multibase.

[Sigma]

Let's be honest here...

It's gonna take a LOT of planes, money, and Image (whether CI or RI) to have an airline that starts up 1 real-month later have even a remote chance against a much larger competitor.  When you've got 100 planes it's no problem to throw a couple of them on your start-up competitor routes and flood them out.  No matter how quick they can move their planes, you can just respond in kind.

No 'incentives' can stop that behavior.  Not unless you're going to give them hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars or dozens of planes.  All you do by giving more money, faster image earning, whatever is make the game a tad bit 'easier' if they happen to be ignored by the competition, it doesn't solve, in any way, the problem that was posed about little, startup airlines getting stomped on by the established big boys.

The only way it's gonna be stopped is if somehow, someway, some sort of anti-monopoly regulations are put into place.  But that would be virtually impossible to do.  I can't even fathom how it could be done fairly and in a manner that makes sense.  I think it's the best solution, but one that is virtually impossible to implement.

I think, honestly, the most practical means is actually not to make it a problem to begin with -- educate the new players to avoid established airlines.  You cannot make an educated decision on where to start in the game now.

1>  Direct new players to lesser-used airports.  Perhaps on the screen where you select your new airport, you have a means of displaying the total traffic into that airport that's been taken.  The total pax demand is known, the total pax throughput is known, so the % of demand that has been taken is known.  Color code this for ease of use.

2>  Make it easier to see who is where.  Even as an established player who knows where to look, it's not easy to know which airports have airlines in them.  You have to check each individually.  And even if you can see there's an airline there, it's completely impossible to know how large they are until you have chosen to start the game.  New players will often not know there's an airline there and, if they do, not know what that really means to them.  Should they care if there's 1 airline?  What if there's 4?  What if they're all small?

3>  Provide warnings if a new player is selecting a "full" airport.  Just a simple confirmation as a last line of defense.  Just a "Hey, there's already 3 airlines HQ'd here who have taken 50% of the total passenger count.  Are you sure you want to start here?"  Maybe have the confirmation suggest 3 alternate locations that may be better suited to them in terms of total pax demand and what percent is remaining.

[swiftus27]

MOAR LOOB!

[JJP]

I would like to expound upon what Sigma has mentioned.  I believe any potential player needs to be able to take a look around the game world to see if they even want to join in the first place.  They should be able to explore the airports, the list of airlines (stats page), be able to see how many aircraft and routes the airlines have, etc.  This way, the late-starting player can know if they really think it is worth the money to join in the first place.

Also, I have mentioned in the survey a while back, and I will mention here: I know this is a sort of simulation, but it is also a game to have fun.  I really, really, REALLY believe the game needs a limit on the number (or $$ value) of used aircraft you can purchase/lease.  Actually, to simplify it: the initial lease(s) /purchase(s) you make with your start-up capital should be it.  After you, as a new airline, make your initial investment in aircraft from your start-up money, you can no longer purchase/lease used aircraft.  This would slow down the incredible expansion of airlines and force them to wait for and invest in new aircraft while leaving good aircraft for later startups.  

I know a lot of you are going to hate me for saying this, but I really think it needs to be implemented.  Let the flaming begin!

[aarong34]

Yeah, I like Sigma's thoughts, as well.  My first AWS game I came in late.  I started out in a very large airport and promptly went bankrupt due to the overwhelming amount of competition.  On my second attempt, I staked out a secondary (KOAK) airport with no competitors and have done quite well there.  I grew to a good sized airline because of the secondary routes, and then ventured into the more competitive markets via connections. 

I think this is just the way it has to work for the late-comers.  And it's probably the best way since I think the majority of late-comers are also new players.  Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems as though the experienced players begin games at the start.  Anyway, maybe if the startup screen to a game suggested to a late-comer that a good strategy would be to seek out a non-competitive, secondary airport, it would work out best for all parties. 

Just my thoughts.  I don't think extra startup money or a faster rate of CI is a good answer.

[Sami]

oh, and also. The idea is not to boost it so that the guy who enters at 50% stage could grow as large as someone who already at that point has 100 strong fleet. He can possibly, if he's good, but that was not my point. It was more in the terms that we should avoid these things where large airlines can use their partly monopolistic market share at some airports to drive out the small / new competition.

[Sergey Goncharenko]

I think, all is simple. It's not necessary to invent that is invented by the world very long time ago. You want new airline? Be ready to investing big money. But even in this case the success of new airline is not guaranteed.

[Dasha]

As I said... the biggest problem is the start up planes.... if I join the new game as first.. with a good loan and stuff I can get two Boeings off the market

when you I join at 50%, all I have left is some crappy old planes nobody wants, which means I have a disadvantage of having no commonality at all.
If you open up the plane market at the 0% mark, EVERYBODY get's their chance to buy planes, joining the game after that is just going to be harder, but that's life. If I start a new airline now and I want to be at LHR with used Boeings... well I guess I made my point...

Be prepared for a little challenge if you start later on. More money isn't going to work. All you get is that the first airlines buy even more planes. Not that anybody ever listens to a girl but this is my advice...

[Sergey Goncharenko]

Problem with planes, yes!
Try to create in a real life new airline with new planes. It will not turn out. There is a turn. Manufacturers have planned the production in advance. Also what you want? What in game it would be not so?

[JonesyUK]

To me, the problem is if you want any sort of sized airline you need to pick a big airport to be based at. Late in the game, this is more than likely saturated.

If you could start at a smallish airport, gain reputation, planes etc then move on to a bigger airport when you're big enough, that would give you a better chance of surviving.

How many new airlies start up at LHR, JFK, etc? Thay usually start at a small airport like Liverpool and then expand. If you start at a small airport in this game, you have no opertunity to expand.

[Talentz]

Very hard to solve.

A bigger airline will always come out on top. Simply because they have far more money to burn.


But to say that a new airline should be able to start and survive at a major airport 50% into a game is .. way off base. By this late into the game, if that big airline hasn't already established himself, it is likely he would already be near bankruptcy himself due to outside competition.

I think the notion of being able able to start at .. LHR, AMS.. ect that late in the game is wishful thinking. There's far to many things to take into consideration.

Honestly, even I know not to start somewhere big late into a game. All its going to do is force me into bankruptcy and make myself look stupid.


~ What we should instead look at is educating the newer player about starting at major airports. In game warnings and hints to steer someone away from wasting 10 credits.

Besides, its a much better learning experience to start from a 2nd class airport and creating a decent airline, then starting from LHR and fighting 5 other airlines in an all out brawl only to have 1 airline come on top and the rest either die off and/or become an insignificant presence.



Talentz

[Sergey Goncharenko]

To me, the problem is if you want any sort of sized airline you need to pick a big airport to be based at. Late in the game, this is more than likely saturated.

If you could start at a smallish airport, gain reputation, planes etc then move on to a bigger airport when you're big enough, that would give you a better chance of surviving.

How many new airlies start up at LHR, JFK, etc? Thay usually start at a small airport like Liverpool and then expand. If you start at a small airport in this game, you have no opertunity to expand.

Yes! Too problem of impossibility the multibase. I think that Sami have not considered capacity of the airport. At one airport it's impossible to base so much number airplanes. For example, in the past game in Domodedovo I had 59 airplanes, and my competitor - 127. It is a critical limit for this airport which has only 146 parkings. It is a question not of quantity of flights and slots, namely about possibility to base 200 and more airplanes at one airport. It is unreal. If to create such restriction and create multibase, new airlines will be compelled to search for other airports. In this case it will be more involved the airports in a simulator. Regional transportations will start to develop. At the moment the simulator reminds large system of hubs.

[Sami]

Okay the plan has hatched...


1) Startup money. It is already relative to game world inflation, so joining 10 years after the world start the true startup money is the same for those who started at the beginning. To further aid the new players the start-up money will increase 0.5% for every real time day the game world has been active, but will peak at 10-15% - so starting 4 weeks after the others would give you 14% more money than at startup, inflation adjusted too.

2) Basefinder. It already tells you when you are about to select an airport with lots of other airlines there. This will be further adjusted and improved to message about the slots and crowded airports.

3) Aircraft concept will be totally renewed. Currently every player will aquire planes from the global used market, for new airlines thruout the game a new procedure will be created. When you start your airline you will have to choose the desired airline type and organization model (<- to be used later on for staff systems) besides of the base and airline name. You can choose between airline types like regional airline, longhaul, and so on. This determines what aircraft selection you will have, and later on the chosen model will also determine the type of company organization you operate and the number of staff employed (this is a separate thing however).

  Anyway, once that is done you are directed to another page where you can buy/lease max two aircraft:  These planes come from the "pool" of aircraft brokers and they are planes waiting to be sold on the used market but they are not yet on the market - in other words they are not visible to other players yet. If you are a regional airline you will be displayed all planes with less than 100 pax for example so initially you can get only planes relative to your chosen business model. You can then buy/lease two planes normally from this selection, depending on your cash, and both will be delivered instantly when the airline is started. The purchase procedure is the same as now, plane selection is just different. There will not be possibility to get new planes at this step but you are given an option to skip this step alltogether.


Once all this is done you start up the airline normally. Any further aircraft purchases will be made thru the normal used/new plane markets.


The changes aim to aid the players with the two main problems - bad availability of popular aircraft models during the game years "start + 1-5 years" and also to aid financially with the increased competition from other airlines once the world is going already.


Another thing what would need a change is the startup period for the game world. As now it is not very realistic when world just starts from nowhere at 1992 for example with tons of unfullfilled pax demand and you can put up like 10x B747 with ONLY premium C/F class config to HKG-LHR routes for example and earn 3mil a plane every week. That's how some players start and they do get quite a head start by using this tactic - not forbidden of course but I'd like to see it a bit differently..