New Fleet Commonality feedback

[Sami]

Would it be possible to add all types that are currently available for order?

Yep, I changed that now.

[Fisher970]

Is it possible to make the calculator for multiple fleets?

For example you may want to retire fleets A & B and replace them with fleet C. You want to see what your costs will be after you combine the fleets. Or the other way around where you want to split a single fleet into 2 new separate fleets? Thinking along the lines of the 707/DC8 transitions were some routes will go to a large aircraft like the 757 and some may go to a widebody like the 767/a330.

[Sami]

Is it possible to make the calculator for multiple fleets?

Yes, but no. I want to keep it simple and move on to other development areas.

[Jack Ruskin]

What was the rationale in implementing the change mid-way through a game?

[Sami]

What was the rationale in implementing the change mid-way through a game?

The game worlds that have this update mid-game will still run for nearly 1 year, and I want to have the "latest product" available at all of them. And, not going to delay the launch of ESSENTIAL updates (v.2.0) just because we run very long game worlds, since having multiple versions running in parallel is a mess and also extremely confusing for users. And effects of this update are positive to the users in all aspects, so no reason to delay it. (MT game world was excluded from the update since it has so little running time left - makes no sense to update it this close to the end)

But as a general rule: Minor and Major new updates will ALWAYS be implemented to all running games, if feasible and if it does not have major adverse effects.

[Sami]

Update #7

The new v.2.0 commonality rules are now active in all game worlds, apart from the Modern Times which is ending soon.

Additionally:

Due to the transition, any "old" game worlds that were just updated to this new Fleet Commonality v.2.0 feature (AG and HatF), will have the old rule in force where aircraft with no routes scheduled will NOT count towards commonality costs. This is to avoid unnecessary fleet management that you have not planned.

Any other game worlds will have the full new ruleset for this new feature.

[schro]

Not sure I'm a fan of having a fleet type that's completely unscheduled counting against commonality as it will add a good bit of expense to doing plane buying/brokering for fleets that you do not plan to fly. How can I make a deal with an alliance mate to sell them planes at cost when cost will then vary depending on how long it 1. Takes me to list them and 2. For them to buy/lease them?

I propose that fleet types that 1. Are not in service with your airline at any base and 2. All are located at your HQ that said fleet type does not count for commonality purposes.

[Sami]

Not sure I'm a fan of having a fleet type that's completely unscheduled counting against commonality as it will add a good bit of expense to doing plane buying/brokering for fleets that you do not plan to fly.

The rationale is that if the aircraft is sitting on the tarmac and is "ready to fly", then you must have the paperwork and training etc. in order. In reality of course it's a 6-12 month project to introduce a new fleet type before you can hit the skies with that, but here that would be a bit too extreme so this "instant-cost" method is chosen.

But indeed have to think of some middle-way for this situation where you have no intention even to fly that fleet. Don't yet know what's the most feasible solution for this; ideas?

(but planes for sale in the market do not count into the expenses anyway)

[chwatuva]

Rather than having a new airplane delivered to one of your bases, could it be coded so that the plane could be delivered directly to storage (to allow for holding aircraft until using them to transition your own fleets) and transferred directly from storage to the used market (to allow for selling, including to alliance mates)?

[schro]

The rationale is that if the aircraft is sitting on the tarmac and is "ready to fly", then you must have the paperwork and training etc. in order. In reality of course it's a 6-12 month project to introduce a new fleet type before you can hit the skies with that, but here that would be a bit too extreme so this "instant-cost" method is chosen.

But indeed have to think of some middle-way for this situation where you have no intention even to fly that fleet. Don't yet know what's the most feasible solution for this; ideas?

(but planes for sale in the market do not count into the expenses anyway)

So, if the criteria I gave in the post was a no go...

What about the ability to have planes delivered from the market directly to storage, and allow them to be listed from storage? I would think that the prepping to move to a new owner/2 week delivery time from there would cover the "remove from storage time" (kind of like the seat changes are covered there).

I'd think adding "Long Term Storage" to the base drop down would be a quick way to do this for both New/Used orders, then allow us to list to the market from storage (assuming valid C/D checks). I think that'd also improve cases where a player has stored planes with valid C/D that they want to see if they could sell (but would prefer to scrap than pay another C/D check) as it'd fall back off the market into storage without getting auto-checked.

Alternatively, I think there's a feature request buried in the backlog that's about facilitating/automating player to player deals, but that's probably a bigger boondoggle to chase.

[joakimhz]

Now with these latest changes, would it make sense to split out Dornier 328 Jet to its own fleet group to leverage the speed and offer a very very low penalty commonality wise to the prop?

[Fabrizzio]

Great changes.  Way more realistic.

[Cedric3108]

Thanks for this update, it's really a great addition to the game.

One fleet that I think should be addressed is the Dornier D328. The D328Jet has been pretty much unusable in game, because it's common type with its turboprop brother means it's flying at the same speed and simply burning more gas doing so.
I think it would make more sense to split the D328Jet off into its own fleet type, let it fly at its real life speed of M.59/380kts (at least that's the speed my research shows) and then give it major commonality boost of like 90% with the rest of the D328 family.

Thanks for considering.

Cheers,
Cedric

[Sami]

Now with these latest changes, would it make sense to split out Dornier 328 Jet to its own fleet group to leverage the speed and offer a very very low penalty commonality wise to the prop?

Yep, gotta do this for the next games.

[hjp766]

Sorry for the late query, as just started up again after years away. A question after reading through the thread, and working off reality at work; 330/350 is a single type rating (as  is 757/767) and rostered as interchangeable but doesn't seem to be grouped together in the earlier lists or in game. Compared to 320/ 330/350 where we can fly both but just not on the same duty day.

[debitants]

The rationale is that if the aircraft is sitting on the tarmac and is "ready to fly", then you must have the paperwork and training etc. in order. In reality of course it's a 6-12 month project to introduce a new fleet type before you can hit the skies with that, but here that would be a bit too extreme so this "instant-cost" method is chosen.

But indeed have to think of some middle-way for this situation where you have no intention even to fly that fleet. Don't yet know what's the most feasible solution for this; ideas?

(but planes for sale in the market do not count into the expenses anyway)

Simple solution would be to give a grace period of 1 game month (or 1 week real life) for a type that is not flown. For example you get A320, you dont use that type yourself, it sits on tarmac and if it is not put for sale within grace period, it would count towards fleet count. So if you manage put into UM and then you get next one, grace period starts all over again.

That would help in situations when you get back plane from lease and it wouldn`t go immediatly in your fleet costs.

[Sami]

Sorry for the late query, as just started up again after years away. A question after reading through the thread, and working off reality at work; 330/350 is a single type rating (as  is 757/767) and rostered as interchangeable but doesn't seem to be grouped together in the earlier lists or in game. Compared to 320/ 330/350 where we can fly both but just not on the same duty day.

A350 has some partial commonality with 330/340 (very small for maint & bigger in training) and also very small with 320 (in training).

[Sami]

Simple solution would be to give a grace period of 1 game month (or 1 week real life) for a type that is not flown. For example you get A320, you dont use that type yourself, it sits on tarmac and if it is not put for sale within grace period, it would count towards fleet count. So if you manage put into UM and then you get next one, grace period starts all over again.

That would help in situations when you get back plane from lease and it wouldn`t go immediatly in your fleet costs.

This is probably the easiest way. Does have a few challenges technically though, but have to look into it.

Also note that we do have the "Automatically send leased out planes to long-term storage when aircraft are returned from lease" setting already available if needed.

[schro]

This is probably the easiest way. Does have a few challenges technically though, but have to look into it.

Also note that we do have the "Automatically send leased out planes to long-term storage when aircraft are returned from lease" setting already available if needed.

Yeah, but we can't list them back to the market from storage and that makes that a big pain.

I'm personally not a fan of the month of grace time, mostly because I'm lazy, and sometimes I'll go a half a game year between listing them (when time isn't of the essence, especially in a late stage part of the game like MT is now). I'd also guess that my suggestion would be a bit easier on the technical side versus tracking delivery/return dates and charging if certain conditions are met....

[Sami]

Update #8

Tweaks to the fleet commonality system. https://feedback.airwaysim.com/changelog/updates-17


    Added "Idle Fleet Types" rule to Fleet Commonality.

    A fleet type is considered idle (and exempt from commonality costs) if both of the following conditions are met: a) No aircraft of the fleet type are assigned to any active routes AND b) The oldest aircraft in the fleet type was delivered no more than 45 game days ago.

    This grace period ensures flexibility for airlines adding or returning fleet types (e.g. from leases from other players) without incurring immediate costs.

    This change is now "live" in all games apart from "Airline Generations" and "History and the Future". The change will apply to these two games next week - please check your idle fleets before that.