Base Setup Timeline

[LemonButt]

It would seem more realistic that bases take time to setup--right now players can hoard aircraft, open a base, and within 24 hours have tens of planes with hundreds/thousands of staff.  I'm not suggesting changing the time frame that bases can be opened, just the process in which they are opened.  They should still have an earliest open date of 365 days between bases, but it takes time staff those bases and make preparations.  My idea would be to basically be a month for each base size level, so it would be between 1-4 months to setup a new base (and upgrade/downgrade).  The limitation on opening bases would also change where you could open a base on day 1 of the game if you wanted to, the thing is they would not be available to schedule aircraft for 1-4 months from the current date or whatever the 365 day deadline would be, plus you'll be paying for staff during the setup period (or maybe there is a ramp up on staff).

This does a few things 1) being it's more realistic as opening base takes time 2) it allows players to use the base planning tool before the 365 days to actually see costs instead of just getting "must wait longer" message--right now no one can plan financially because they have no idea how much a base will cost 3) it solves this issue with changing deliveries to the correct base: https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,84087.0.html (there is a comment about planning mattering, but that is effectively my issue with it--if you are proactively planning you can't order aircraft and have it delivered to a base you haven't opened yet without paying and depending on the delivery timeline, this is impossible).  Also having lead time on opening a base gives competitors a heads up they have competition moving in.  If a new player enters the game and HQ's at their base, they can't go from 0 to 100 aircraft overnight, but if an existing player opens a base they can and that's where things can hit the fan.  IRL existing airlines would take months to plan a new base and it would be known to competitors which is more realistic.

[jezbanks]

To what end?

Everyone has the same restriction so you are just extending the 1 year delay.

In reality airlines can and do move dozens of planes into a base on one day

[LemonButt]

To what end?

Everyone has the same restriction so you are just extending the 1 year delay.

In reality airlines can and do move dozens of planes into a base on one day

To all of the ends I described in my original post?  In reality airlines move a dozen plans into a base in one day, but it's proceeded by months, if not years of negotiation, coordination, and preparations.  Many of the games features/functionality are disabled until you open a base (ordering planes to be delivered, etc).  Most airlines would be surprised to find out that opening a level 4 base costs $40m because they literally cannot see the costs since the tool is disabled.

[sanabas]

This does a few things 1) being it's more realistic as opening base takes time

This is not a benefit. Making gameplay more annoying because 'realism' isn't a good thing.

2) it allows players to use the base planning tool before the 365 days to actually see costs instead of just getting "must wait longer" message--right now no one can plan financially because they have no idea how much a base will cost

If the benefit is to let people plan, let people see the route planning screen and round trip times in advance, let people see the base opening cost in advance, then the solution is to allow people to look at those two things even if they're not yet eligible to open a base, even if they're not yet eligible to open a route. Doing that would have the additional benefit of making it easier to offer advice to others, instead of having to make educated guesses about trip times and things.

Also, your suggestion doesn't actually help. We'd still only see that a level 4 base costs 40 million or whatever on the day we're eligible to spend the 40 million to start the 'process', just like now. We'd then just have to wait a few RL days after doing so while our staff 'plan' stuff, so bad luck if we're trying to set everything up over a free weekend. And don't forget, people sometimes pay to open a base, then start looking at creating routes, only to immediately close the base, eat the few million in losses, and immediately open the actual new base elsewhere because that works better. So now you'd want those making a mistake to pay to open the base, wait a couple of RL days before discovering their mistake, and then have to wait a couple of RL days again for the replacement? That's just frustrating as a player for no benefit, that's the kind of thing that stops people playing their airline.

3) it solves this issue with changing deliveries to the correct base:

No, it doesn't. I have new planes on order for the next 10 years. Doesn't matter if I open a new base as normal in 5 years, or am forced to pay for it in 4.5 years and only get to open it in 5 years, I'm still going to need to pay to modify the orders and change the destination, or wait until they're delivered and do it for free. And again, if the benefit is to allow any plane we can see in the scheduler to be rebased for free, the solution is to allow us to rebase anything we can see in the scheduler, instead of just the planes in operation and in maintenance we can now. The solution isn't to introduce something counter-productive, annoying and over-complicated in order to achieve a secondary benefit.

Also having lead time on opening a base gives competitors a heads up they have competition moving in.  If a new player enters the game and HQ's at their base, they can't go from 0 to 100 aircraft overnight, but if an existing player opens a base they can and that's where things can hit the fan.  IRL existing airlines would take months to plan a new base and it would be known to competitors which is more realistic.

Why is this a benefit? Let's say I have a small airline. Let's say I get notified that a big airline might be putting 100 planes in my HQ in 4 months. It's not like that helps me in any way. It's not like I can do anything about it that I couldn't/wouldn't do if I got notified by seeing the base open and the first planes arrive that day.

The only benefits here are side-effects that are better achieved by addressing them directly. And the downside in forcing people to arbitrarily wait, preventing them from working on their airline when they have time available to do so, is significant.

[LemonButt]

^ agree on most points.  You can see the routes without opening a base, so I'm not sure why anyone is opening a base without realizing what demand there is ahead of time, but based on the dashboard events it seems people do it.  Having orders 10 years out is different than placing orders that can be fulfilled immediately (within months) as not everyone is ordering popular aircraft with deep wait lists.  If you're ordering aircraft that can be delivered in a couple months you can't have it delivered to a new base (which goes back to being able to change delivery for free and also being able to rebase imminent deliveries being a good solution).

I still see a benefit with the time aspect.  You think it makes it more annoying, but it's only annoying for people who are looking to play a strategy game without using any strategy.  IRL if you spend $40m to open a base and then close it, your board is going to fire you in short order.  The fact is any half-successful player in the game is planning months ahead when they open a base and is doing it deliberately, placing orders and/or hoarding aircraft to hit the ground running along with the route research.  If I've already put the wheels in motion to open a base at an airport, there isn't much between putting plans in motion and actually clicking the button that will change that.

You stated there is no benefit and that's the kind of thing that stops people from playing their airline--I think what's even more detrimental is when a new player joins the game and finds an empty airport to start an HQ in only to find out immediately after they start other major airlines open a base there and flood them out.  Thus if they have heads up knowledge that airlines are basing there with significant competition inbound they can make better decisions.

If players are opening bases haphazardly and shooting from the hip without doing any planning, then really the question is should that even be possible?  In virtually any business in the real world you'd get crucified.  Right now it requires more deliberate planning and strategy to lease a single aircraft than it does to open a base with hundreds of employees across many functional areas which doesn't really make much sense.

[sanabas]

I think what's even more detrimental is when a new player joins the game and finds an empty airport to start an HQ in only to find out immediately after they start other major airlines open a base there and flood them out.  Thus if they have heads up knowledge that airlines are basing there with significant competition inbound they can make better decisions.

No, they couldn't.

First off, this is a mythical thing that doesn't actually happen in reality, new airline opens in some empty airport, big airline objects to this, opens base there and puts in 100 planes.

Secondly, big airline putting 100 planes there doesn't actually matter. If they've made good decisions from the start, they'll make money regardless. If they've set up poorly, they won't be successful regardless. They're not going to suddenly decide to run their airline well instead of poorly because they get 2 days RL notice that a big airline is opening a base.

If players are opening bases haphazardly and shooting from the hip without doing any planning, then really the question is should that even be possible?  In virtually any business in the real world you'd get crucified.

IT'S. A. GAME.

My AG airline sees me pay attention to it for maybe 30 min/week right now. (In actual fact, much less, thing's been on full autopilot for over a month) That means the airline is being actively managed for 1 game day out of every game year. Do that in any real business, you go broke. An effectively run startup airline can have 100-150 planes after 12-18 months. That's not possible in reality either. Some AWS airlines' maintenance staff manage to service 500 planes every weekend, most at midnight, and then go to the pub monday-friday.

You think it makes it more annoying, but it's only annoying for people who are looking to play a strategy game without using any strategy.  IRL if you spend $40m to open a base and then close it, your board is going to fire you in short order.  The fact is any half-successful player in the game is planning months ahead when they open a base and is doing it deliberately, placing orders and/or hoarding aircraft to hit the ground running along with the route research.

I'm a half-successful player. I spend maybe 15 minutes working out where to go when I open a base. It was maybe 20 seconds for my current AoF airline. I wasted millions with a poor fuel hedge, I've wasted a few million more lately by accidentally doing D-checks, misclicking the occasional order, forgetting to hire staff, not noticing a pair of leases had ended and routes were unflown. And in AG, I did waste a couple of million opening a base and then immediately closing it.

And it's not possible to do route research early. I can't see how long the flight takes until the base is open. Knowing the round trip time is required for research.

It is annoying for anyone who is time limited. You want them to make the decision to open a base, pay for it, but then have an arbitrary wait of 3 RL days before they can do anything to actually manage their airline's flights. If I can log on at any time, any day, that's not much of an imposition. If I can only play for a 4 hour block once/week, it is. And again, there's no actual benefit other than 'but it's more realistic'. The only real benefits are side-effects that are better addressed directly.

[gazzz0x2z]

+1 with Sanabas.

IRL, you'd have many hours per day to set up everything - plus a full staff to help you. In the game, you've got only 30 minutes, and you're alone. Then, many things have to be abstracted so that the game remains playable. The 40M opening fee covers everything. All the dirty stuff is managed by your staff, and you can concentrate on the noble - and fun - stuff.

It does not mean the dirty stuff is easy, or not important. It means the dirty stuff does add only pain. AWS is already hard to play, as correctly pointed out by Sanabas. It requires a lot of attention to detail. I'm flying double tech-stopped MD88SF from Europe(ORY & STN) to midwest and West coast - with one of the tech stops in Narsarsuaq - curfew 1708. It's very hard to make it work properly. I don't wand additional work on my shoulders.

Once again, everything your staff does is abstracted. All those little, menial tasks you want to add are just abstracted right now - that's what makes the game still playable, despite its huge depth and complexity.