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Author Topic: Variable turnaround time  (Read 7372 times)

yevgeniy

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2011, 09:17:39 PM »
Relating to this how come the Tu-114 has such a ridiculously short turn around time (same as a B737)? (Not that I am complaining).

Offline Kazari

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2011, 04:23:38 AM »
It has a shorter turnaround time than an IL-18, which is another Soviet four-engine airliner.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2011, 09:41:07 PM »
Except the 114 uses the bomb bay for quicker egress

Offline ArcherII

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2011, 02:12:30 AM »
Re-living this thread as I have come up with something that made me wonder following Southwest Airlines operations at ATL following Air Tran merger. WN is known for their short turnaround time. Yee... they're not fast as they say, but still are still quick. And their game is point-to-point all the way me thinks.

Well, ATL is mainly a hub-and-spoke connecting airport and DL's fortress, thus having awfully lots of flights per day (DL alone has more than 600 flights a day). So....WN won't be able to deliver normal turnarounds at ATL, let alone short ones, as I suppose the slots are drying up in this very moment (i'm talking about tarmac space, jetways, ground service and of course ATC and runway limitations). BUT, they should be able to turn the 737 around at their destination (small uncongested airport) for a relatively shorter time without penalty. The same for any airline.

So I was thinking, could the turnaround time be based not only by type but also influenced by airport service availability (ie, slots)?

If ATL had lotsa slots to throw away, then it would be feasible to turn an A320 in, say, 60 min without delay (fingers crossed); but if indeed ATL was slot-constrained, then that turn time could be longer for the reasons mentioned above.

This could restrict small planes at LHR for the very same reason, you won't be able to turn a Metro every 20min with the passengers, services, big airliners and ATCs. Just ask yourself if even the fuel trucks would be able to deliver, what about tarmac buses, baggage spots, etc...The fewer the slots, the longer the allowable turnaround time. By inversion, the more the slots, the shorter the allowable turnaround time.

Sigma

  • Former member
Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2011, 02:49:15 AM »
I see what you're saying Archer, but isn't that already modeled here explicitly?

Since we model slots here already, the affect of a full airport on departures is already in the game.  As slots get rarer the odds of one being right when your plane is normally ready becomes more rare.  It is quite often when flying to a busy slot-constrained airport that I cannot depart when I want and must instead increase my turnaround.  Decreasing in those cases is also a possibility, but only at the risk of flight delay or cancellations, so increasing the turnaround time to the nearest available slot is usually the only option.

Jps

  • Former member
Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2011, 06:08:08 AM »
Very nice and interesting idea, Archer.
However, problems would come for the airlines who have started at big airports; as the airport get more and more congested, the required turn- around time for all their flights would be increased. This would mean that they either get more delays, or have to manually adjust all their routes, which again could be a daunting task if they have hundreds or thousands of routes.

Edit: added reference
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 08:20:13 AM by Jps »

Offline Tujue

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Re: Minumum Ground Time B752
« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2011, 07:57:12 AM »
Hi,

I would suggest to reduce the minimum ground time for a B757-200 from 110 minutes to
50 minutes. We see this aircraft type being used on different type of flights. On any
intercontinental flight I would agree with a MGT of 110 minutes, but for domestic
and flights within the continent many airlines will apply a MGT of approx. 50 mins.

I can not imagine BA, AY, IB used to have a 110 min MGT on their European flights.
Hope you'll be able to to update this even though the new games have already started.
Turkish Airlines for example is know for its last minute switching of aircraft types, we see many types flying in at Schiphol, from the A319 to the A340 (don't know if the even had used their triple seven to AMS). During these flights, I noticed the A340 has the same turnaround time as a A32x/737NG, around 50-60 minutes. In AWS it is impossible to implement TAT like that for an wide body aircraft. Also the many A300s which were used by Turkish charter companies had also a TAT of 50-60 minutes. Hope to see an update for the newer games.
I bet, if TK operated the A380, they would even use it on several domestic flights like IST-BJV due to the huge demand, instead of the regular 737/A32x. Would be unrealistic for the airline if the A380 required more than double of TAT.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 07:59:35 AM by TK1244 »
TK Regional

Jona L.

  • Former member
Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2011, 08:21:55 AM »
Delta and Northwest fly 757 between US and Europe.

Continental did so as well, I think United (aka Continited) continues that service...

Jona L.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2011, 12:22:35 PM »
Continental did so as well, I think United (aka Continited) continues that service...

Jona L.

They still do with 752s

Offline MRFREAK

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #49 on: July 29, 2011, 07:17:23 AM »
If shorter turnaround times ever gets to be a reality, i think it should only be on the smaller airports and not able at Heathrow or Frankfurt, Beijing etc. Also it should the flights should be shorter than ???nm.

CX717

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2011, 05:01:23 AM »
It is nice to see another feature suggestion thread opened by me being brought back to front.
times flies~~~~~~~~~  ;D

Offline type45

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2011, 10:55:10 AM »
maybe that also means some old problems are still here ;) not a good thing but hope this will be improved soon......

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2012, 07:36:24 PM »
I just had another idea : tie turnarounds to available staff. If you hire more ground staff, all your airplanes can turn quicker.

Jona L.

  • Former member
Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #53 on: October 01, 2012, 10:27:55 PM »
I just had another idea : tie turnarounds to available staff. If you hire more ground staff, all your airplanes can turn quicker.

Biggest problem is not the staff, but the passengers.... we can get 265PAX (B753) through the gate in 9 minutes (with 3 people and 3 gate scanners) problem: they all get stuck in front of the door. Even with 2 doors to be used for boarding it will take at least 20 minutes (rather 30) because passengers stand in the aisle and stow their belongings in the overhead bins, and thereby block the way for the others --> takes more time.

To be noted: Boarding by sections (e.g. rows 18-32 first, 1-18 later, on B738) doesn't help at all, unless ALL passengers understand and follow that request. Otherwise you have people standing near the gate, blocking the way for the others and thus slow down the whole process.

Unless we can some day live in a perfect world, where people with an IQ of room temperature (°C) or below are denied access to airports and everyone else complies with the rules and requests of airlines/ground staff, boarding will always be pain in the ass.

The term "self on- and offloading cargo" for passengers is far mistaken. Better would be "automatically delaying payload".

cheers,
Jona L.

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #54 on: October 01, 2012, 11:13:50 PM »
It was just a thought of an easy solution to begin with. And in some cases the airline itself is causing delays by understaffing check-ins for example. I just lived through that experience, when a fully booked 738 was handled by just one person. We left 30 minutes behind schedule, obviously because check-in was not finished on departure time.
I know that there are more reasons aircrafts can turn quicker like small airfields, no big luggage or freight, maybe no fuelling, just smart businessmen as passengers, less catering and so on, but that would be much harder to code.

Offline Andre

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #55 on: October 02, 2012, 12:18:24 AM »
The best thing would be an option to choose ground handling services from different companies, like with fuel contracts. The more expensive ground handling service, the faster they turn around. In reality, a B737-800 can be turned around in 20 minutes with minimal delays.

Offline Michael J Toffman

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2017, 01:49:36 PM »
In real life, Qantas can turn around a 275~ seater A330 in just an hour without delay. Would be good to see this in the game.

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #57 on: May 25, 2018, 08:22:31 PM »
Quote from: Sami
pls search for 'variable turnaround time' thread, this will be covered there. (= general renewal instead of tweaking minutes off "this and that plane")

I was trawling through older threads to see when the last time the issue of 757 turnaround times was bought up. I was directed here from a thread which was 6-7 years old. I imagine that schro and JumboShrimp will be interested seeing as they were in the original threads (apologies for editing the 757 Wikipedia page all those years ago, I did get a slap on the wrist from them).

I appreciate that there wasn't going to be a tit for tat solution to this as stated above (was unable to quote directly). Having recently gone for 757s in GW1 whilst forgetting how bad their turnarounds were, I was wondering if we could revisit this issue to make the 757 playable again (since that post, other factors like "frequency rape" and variable aircraft pricing have helped to make it less attractive). Only asking as it doesn't look like a long term turnaround time overhaul is in the near future.

I believe there has been enough supporting evidence thrown around in the past but I'll add my own contribution from the airline I work for.

Our minimum turnaround time on the 757-200 is 50 minutes. They may often be scheduled higher, say 60 minutes or even more for transatlantic, but in case of delays or such then this is the required time to prepare the aircrfat for the next sector (as we know sometimes this figure can be beaten). This is coming from a company which is very conservative in their operations, 737-300 and 737-800 minimum turnaround times are 40 and 45 minutes respectively. This is when we all know that 25-30 minutes are achievable in these aircraft types (although my company figures reflect the game more closely).

I appreciate that there is a balance to strike between long haul and short haul on this aircraft, but others have made comparisons to turnaround times on A350 and B787 aircraft and I believe that the 757 should sit closer to the B737MAX and A321NEO turnaround times. Especially when you consider that it was conceived as a 727 replacement thus short to mid haul, I believe that the long haul was a mid life development from the US carriers when they opened up more point to point transatlantic routes.

TLDR: please put 757 minimum turnaround to 50 minutes... or failing that 60 minutes.....
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline schro

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #58 on: May 25, 2018, 10:56:17 PM »
Delta routinely schedules turns here in the US the same as their MD80/90s, A32x and 737NG planes.  In GW1, it's a royal PITA to go from the 727 to the 757 (even though the 757 was the intended replacement for the 727), even though the 727 schedules will transfer just fine to any other narrow body. Since the 757 is a large plane and is too small to do long haul (i.e. act like an extra large plane), then it should have a turn time that's consistent with other large planes....

Offline Zobelle

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2018, 12:31:09 AM »
I think what alex is saying is to allow for "unpenalized" shorter turn times on domestic travel while leaving it be on International or LH International. This is a great idea, personally.

In fact, all aircraft should have this option for shorter "unpenalized" turn times the shorter the flight is and or the smaller the destination airport past savings on taxi time.

For example. ATL-CAE routinely flown with 717 irl is naturally bound to have a shorter turn time than the same flown to MDW or FLL. Add in variable cruise speed and we can really make the best use out of aircraft.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 12:35:46 AM by Zobelle »

 

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