VC10 & Il-62

[Beni]

For the third time, the most likely explanation is the lack of cargo rollers. If you want the Il-62 and IL-62M to be in separate fleet groups so that the 62M gets a faster turn time you should petition Sami. You might want to be careful of what you wish for.

For the third time I can´t accept this possible explanation because if it were true, there should be significant less turnaround time in Il-62M and there is no difference. I'm still waiting for a credible explanation.

The Il-62 has larger dimensions, carries more passengers, and has a higher MTOW than the VC-10. In game that results in slightly higher min turn times. As an example, see the 767-A320/330-777 turn progression. They're all VLA and have increasingly higher turns.

15% more MTOW, 15% more passengers and 80% more turnaround time. I'm afraid once again that this is not the "technical" reason.

Lets compare now 727-200 and Tu-154. They are very similar planes in MTOW and passengers so, according with your theory, they should have similar turnaround time, but once again the Tu-154 has 25% more.

It is clear that the programmers have decided to punish the use of Soviet aircrafts and also Russian ones (in advanced stages), and it is also clear that the decision is not based on technical issues but is a deliberate fact. What I ask for is a credible explanation on why they have decided to do this. I would like to play a game where differences between planes are due only to technical reasons and not to other type of reasons.

** If you dont like what I propose to discuss, it is easy. Forget my post.**

[Tha_Ape]

For the third time I can´t accept this possible explanation because if it were true, there should be significant less turnaround time in Il-62M and there is no difference. I'm still waiting for a credible explanation.

Don't want to interfere too much, as I don't know the technical facts. But in the game, a fleet group almost always gets his settings from the worth plane of the family.
Hence, if the -62 haven't any cargo rollers and the 62M does, no matter what, the TaT will be the one of the -62.

Another example: in future GWs, the conversion of the Super Sixties to Super Seventies will be possible: while IRL the CFM-56 gave quite a nicer speed to the 71-72-73 than previous engines, in AWS they will still have the same speed as the 62 etc, or even as the DC-8-10, as they are all part of the same fleet group.
Yeah, strange, the DC-8-10 was introduced in 59 and the Super Seventies in the 80s, they obviously have quite a lot of difference, but that's how it's organized.

[chiveicrook]

Beni, the only "directed" punishment of Eastern Block aircraft is a) slightly lower desirability from pax perspective and b) higher maintenance costs. Other things are usually caused by lack of reliable sources (and data from manufacturer's website is not really a reliable source - it's both biased and incomplete). If you manage to find a decent source and take time to present this information to Sami, he will implement it ASAP.

As an example, I've researched Yak-40, Il-62M, Il-18, Tu-114, Tu-104 and Il-14P/M. In all cases Sami approved changes (sometimes, however, results were somewhat different because of implementation). I took all data from scanned flight manuals for crews. In case you speak at least some Russian you could help by digging through these docs: http://aviadocs.net/RLE/ -> this is just one webpage of aviation fans in Russia, there are dozens more with documentation of probably every Soviet and Russian aircraft.
Some of them are over 1000 pages long. It is a lot of work to extract proper data and interpret it properly.

Edit: As an example, book 1 of Il-86's documentation is 700 pages long: http://aviadocs.net/RLE/IL-86/CD1/RLYE/IL-86_RLYE_kn1_bl1.pdf

[Beni]

Beni, the only "directed" punishment of Eastern Block aircraft is a) slightly lower desirability from pax perspective and b) higher maintenance costs. Other things are usually caused by lack of reliable sources (and data from manufacturer's website is not really a reliable source - it's both biased and incomplete). If you manage to find a decent source and take time to present this information to Sami, he will implement it ASAP.

Ok, and why are theese "only directed" punishment? I think this is the core of this matter. If I use a Il-18 equiped with the same level of seats as an equivalent western plane, why the system makes Il-18 less attractive than its western counterpart? It is real that eastern bloc airlines equiped their planes with less luxury than western ones, but this can be understood in terms of politics. Nevertheless, AWS is a game that should be apart of political thougts and assume that similar level of seats mean similar planes. Other thing is the maintenance cost; why are they higher? Are they higher only because during the 90s a number of collapsep national airlines flew their planes without the properly mainenance and had numerous incidents? Because if you talk about reliable sources, I can't find no one to explain (once again without politics) why they should be more expensive than similar western planes. Finally, I agree with you that sometimes the info from the manufacturers is not the best one, but I suppose that this is the same with the info from Boeing or Airbus and not only with russian fonts.

As an example, I've researched Yak-40, Il-62M, Il-18, Tu-114, Tu-104 and Il-14P/M. In all cases Sami approved changes (sometimes, however, results were somewhat different because of implementation). I took all data from scanned flight manuals for crews. In case you speak at least some Russian you could help by digging through these docs: http://aviadocs.net/RLE/ -> this is just one webpage of aviation fans in Russia, there are dozens more with documentation of probably every Soviet and Russian aircraft.
Some of them are over 1000 pages long. It is a lot of work to extract proper data and interpret it properly.

Edit: As an example, book 1 of Il-86's documentation is 700 pages long: http://aviadocs.net/RLE/IL-86/CD1/RLYE/IL-86_RLYE_kn1_bl1.pdf

Thank you very much for your info. Unfortunately my level of russian language is very very basic, but I will try to use your links to get some data. Thank you again.

[MikeS]

Well, Soviet aircraft are really cheap to buy in this game. You cannot expect them to be cheap, easy to maintain and popular at the same time. In that case no one would buy Boeings anymore and that sure wouldn't be realistic.
I have used Soviet aircraft a lot in this game and they have been very profitable during certain stages. It's all about the right aircraft for the right time and task.
If AWS were more "political", then these birds would've been banned for use in many western countries as they didn't have the appropriate air worthiness certificate.

Mike

[gazzz0x2z]

It's all about the right aircraft for the right time and task.

Exactly this. Once you understand their strengths(so cheap to lease/buy) and weaknesses(they don't last long), you can build up proper strategies for growing your company with them. Just don't hope to buy 800 IL-96 and fly them for 24 years as you'd do for a B777 playing in LHR. That's not the proper way to use those birds.