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Author Topic: Changelog and Previews comment thread  (Read 44680 times)

Offline MikeS

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #400 on: June 26, 2019, 12:48:59 PM »
while I cannot comment on the new slot system/mechanism from where I'm based,  I believe 10 airlines based at any airport is excessive. There is bound to be a complete slot shortage sooner or later. Probably best to seek out new bases to expand from while waiting for some of the airlines to bankrupt.

I for one prefer the game to be as realistic as possible, that does make it more boring though. It's all in the balance I guess ....

Mike

Offline Mort

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #401 on: June 26, 2019, 05:23:31 PM »
Some very nice quality of life changes there Sami, thanks!

Offline DanDan

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #402 on: June 26, 2019, 05:55:14 PM »
Some very nice quality of life changes there Sami, thanks!

i agree. conversion out of storage would have been the iceing on the cake though ;)

Offline Mort

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #403 on: June 26, 2019, 06:21:44 PM »
i agree. conversion out of storage would have been the iceing on the cake though ;)

On that note, straight from the used market purchase page would be awesome too please!!

Offline Aero

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #404 on: June 27, 2019, 10:00:49 AM »
As noted in the changelog entry, the slot quota system is based on the old design and will be possibly tuned at some point after there are more experiences of it. However it's not just yet time to jump to any conclusions since it has been in use only for a couple of weeks. But the intention is to find a balance where one doesn't have to be online at all times, and neither be online when the slot increase happens, but still give some small reward if you're able to visit more often than let's say every two days.



First things first, the airport is not totally slot blocked. The morning hours are rather taken but not near 100% usage overall. But sure, ATL is currently the most difficult airport (traditionally it has been always LHR, but can't stick to old patterns). Mainly due to the excessive number of airlines HQ'ed there currently (more than at LHR).

You are incorrect with the assumption of maximum of 100 slots / hr for all scenarios. It depends on the game settings and at GW#1 already at infra 4 it has 70sl/hr. For smaller/shorter games the global modifier is usually at the default, but not for larger/longer games.

No, this is not happening. The only time the slots increase in bits is at the game start period during the first years. After that expansion happens only when the airport itself expands, which can be seen as the most realistic way since the airport capacity cannot increase out of thin air. Please read the details about the change from the announcement for details: changelog and also the manual.


There are no airports in GW#1 that are at this moment 24/7 slot blocked and the game has been running for 2 years now already. Even the "always slot locked" LHR has still some slots available (92% usage) - a very high value but totally expected since it has 7 large airlines based there. Outside of the top-3 airports, let's say Haneda, we have only 65% slot usage with plenty of slots at every hour! So check your facts first please.

Of the 8% free slots 7% are within 2 game hours?
LHR have a too high quota and also some players take the advantage to schedule 3-5 flights within 1 hour and have a 5 game day limit they can eat out easy all the good slots in a real day and we have to wait again for 4 real months,just because fly 5 flights within 1 hour on a 300 demand is allowed and with new type arrivals they probably will reschedule the flights to actually good routes and this way have there slot security.
As with 92% of the slot beeing distributed at an airport beeing closed between 11pm and 6AM you not have to be worried you loose demand on a frequency war,as there is a reason those 8% are not used as are at times you cannot do anything good with them
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 10:04:07 AM by Aero »

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #405 on: June 27, 2019, 10:38:41 AM »
I'm shared on the topic.

On one side, Sami is right. One can't expect all airports always to have all needed slots. Managing limited resources is part of the fun. Like managing the lack of used aircraft. I had a blast in previous GW2, flying IL12s that were as costly to fly than CV240s, for half the capacity and half the range, but IL12s were available at once. I had to think out of the box.

But I had to think out of the box in a severa-criterion game, with bizarre solutions that actually were possible to find. Good planes were impossible to find, mediocre ones had 6 months of delay(my then-rival went for the AW55, still better than my IL12s, but he had to wait 6 months - time to market for IL12s was 6 weeks, and it proved a decisive advantage), so I aimed for the worse possible piece of steel in the whole game. And succeeded anyways. @tungstennedge - Your style of play perfectly works as long as resources are unlimited. You'd learn a lot playing when resources are actually scarce, and opposition harsh. For reference, I was based in WAW, finally beat my opponent there(after 20 years of a crazy fight), and ended up 8th in overall scoring. Nothing was easy to me, I had a strong shortage of demand for the 54 first years of the game, couldn't fly the fleet structure I wanted for 21 years(and my B377-B727 switch), most EU airports were filled with opposition when skies opened to me in 2004, and I ended up richer than God. That's far more challenging than spamming the big routes in LHR once all local players have given up, and whining when slots or used planes are getting scarce.

Big boys don't cry. Curfews and already optimized 7-7 schedules prevented me from opening a 4th daily fly to SIN from SGN when a local BK'd. It's painful, there was demand for that, and I'd have improved my profitability. But that's the game. I'm in a place where I have to play tight with tight resources. That's where the fun is : make the best out of where I am, be it a big airport(I played FRA once in a challenge game, and CDG, MAD & JFK in GW3s) or a small one. I'm not gonna complain because my plan is destroyed by bad news. 80% of companies BK before the end of the game. Whatever their plans were, those plans were destroyed one way or another. BTW, many players did meet my company, and not many did survive the experience. I am also a game-breaker for many. I can ruin a game as surely as a lack of slots or used aircraft, maybe even more. I'm not hiding behind the facts - even as I'm not specifically targetting my opponents, I pushed most of them to BK, just by existing and scheduling like if they didn't exist.

If one day a player better than me BK's me, well, it's the game. I'm not gonna cry. I'm more gonna try to check what was wrong in my playstyle. How I didn't adapt properly to the situation.

Yet.

Yet I still have a philosophical problem with the new slot system.

Slots, are a one-dimensional problem. Once there are none, there are none. It can be mitigated in ATL or LHR(find another airport in the country to toy with and manage your growth), but not in SIN, for example. So, SIN has just been expanded, everyone stole the slots, and now, let's sleep for 4 game years before the next expansion. That's not my idea of fun. Once again, you're slot-locked in LHR, you attack MAN, or GLA, or God(who saves the queen) knows what in the kingdom. I still fear for the one-airport places. ALG probably does not have enough demand to slot-lock you, but SIN and later in the game(because of cargo) HKG definitively risk end up being boredom traps at one point or another. those airports are not places where you can escape once it's slot-locked.

Unfrequent slot drops in the middle of nowhere, while 100% unrealistic, help the game stay dynamic. The situation at a given airport is not frozen for the next 5-6 years. Next time I'll be at a slot-locked airport, I'll miss those. Because well, let's say I'm back in CDG, and this time I've got skilled opponents before the late game. It gets slot-locked, airport expands, it gets slotlocked again. OK, I can forget the airport for 5 years. It's frozen. Nothing to do whatsoever there. The whole situation at the airport is locked. No hope of fresh air. Realistic? Probably, especially when comparing to LHR IRL. Interesting for the game? Not so much.

Offline Cornishman

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #406 on: June 27, 2019, 11:04:52 AM »
Reading all the above arguments for and against the SLOTS issue... this for me makes by far, the most sense: (quote gazzz)

Unfrequent slot drops in the middle of nowhere, while 100% unrealistic, help the game stay dynamic. The situation at a given airport is not frozen for the next 5-6 years. Next time I'll be at a slot-locked airport, I'll miss those. Because well, let's say I'm back in CDG, and this time I've got skilled opponents before the late game. It gets slot-locked, airport expands, it gets slotlocked again. OK, I can forget the airport for 5 years. It's frozen. Nothing to do whatsoever there. The whole situation at the airport is locked. No hope of fresh air. Realistic? Probably, especially when comparing to LHR IRL. Interesting for the game? Not so much.

Sami - please reconsider these latest slot changes you made. The game is really not maintaining the level of enjoyability.  It is a problem when you see people typing things like (quote Tungstennedge)

This is the reason I stopped playing new worlds because I never got to play, either slot blocked or no planes of any kind on UM. Seems like it desperately needs a fix, now I'm glad I didn't spend credits to join GW1.

If I get the chance to have some time to jump onto an online game like I do with AWS, I really want to be enjoying my time... not switching it off in frustration because I'm blocked from doing anything meaningful.  I personally don't have any problems with my current GW4 game, but it is worrying to see these comments and many of them are strong arguments against the changes, which I have to add my dislike for the new process.  An old euphemism says you get better results when you give a donkey a carrot instead of hitting it with a stick!

Offline Sami

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #407 on: June 27, 2019, 11:13:10 AM »
And still, we are talking now about a total of two airports in the entire game world #1 that are currently restricted by slots. What a disaster ::) ;)

Only ATL and LHR would currently need expansion. All others work just as intended (well, LAX is still waiting for boost from level 3 to 4 but I'd suppose it comes soon). And none can be surprised that an airport with 7-9 airlines HQ'ed there becomes slot-limited.

Also note the "launch notes" of Game World #1:
Notes regarding the launch of this particular game world:
  • The new airport slot system will limit the growth at some airports. However it is not intended to be the single major limiting factor at all airports, but be prepared that some airports are not accessible due to lack of slots! We're keeping an eye on how the new system performs as adjustments and tuning might be necessary.

=> It is way too early to think of any big changes.

There has been already some tuning on how the expansions get started, so the developments are monitored. One issue was that ATL+LHR got their expansions a bit too soon in regards to the game launch, and that has been adjusted for future. There might be also some changes on how quickly the next expansion can happen in early era if airports become too limited.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 11:15:27 AM by Sami »

Offline dmoose42

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #408 on: June 27, 2019, 11:30:42 AM »
Also, I will say, that I kinda like having periods of less activity - for example if the airport is slot locked and I know the next expansion is some years away, I can put my airline on autopilot for a few years and focus on other GW’s or RL.

Offline Aero

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #409 on: June 27, 2019, 12:50:59 PM »
Sami,
If airliners fly 3-5 flights in 1 to 1,5 hours on sh  just to lock certain hours,here you find the problem.
The slot sytem it self is not the problem.

Then those slots are disapear to New routes and also multiple flights within a hour with 300 demand routes are not logical.even the manual say slot hoging is not allowed.
Some players are always try to find to avoid the sytem and take the fun out for others who play by the rule.
That why the last 2 quaters feel extra sweet. ;)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 12:57:29 PM by Aero »

Offline Dasha

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #410 on: June 27, 2019, 01:04:10 PM »
May I suggest, completely off topic, to Aero, this:

https://www.nha.nl/taalcursussen/engels/engels-voor-beginners


Cause honestly, I have no idea what you are trying to say.
The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes, decide everything

Offline DanDan

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #411 on: June 27, 2019, 02:29:10 PM »
Sami,
If airliners fly 3-5 flights in 1 to 1,5 hours on sh  just to lock certain hours,here you find the problem.
The slot sytem it self is not the problem.

Then those slots are disapear to New routes and also multiple flights within a hour with 300 demand routes are not logical.even the manual say slot hoging is not allowed.
Some players are always try to find to avoid the sytem and take the fun out for others who play by the rule.
That why the last 2 quaters feel extra sweet. ;)

well, yes, there was a case in GW2 where someone was accused of slot hogging. but since the airline used planes that were so small, they actually still made a profit, it was not considered slot-hogging.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #412 on: June 27, 2019, 02:42:33 PM »
At the same time, if opposition is harsh(which is common early in the game, at least in cool airports), small planes are doing profit, and big planes on the same routes are losing money. Is it still slot-hogging to fly small airframes in those conditions? I mean, it's a frequent occurence, I saw that countless times in Europe, some player lands a DC6 on a short route, another one lands 3 M202s, guess who wins? I can"t consider the M202 player as a slot hogger.

Offline Andre090904

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #413 on: June 27, 2019, 02:47:10 PM »
If a big airport will be limited to 100 slots, there will be tons of uncovered demand at those places. Imagine there are no slots left in LHR, FRA, AMS, CDG, LAX, CDG, ATL, JFK, SIN, HKG...etc. Demand still grows and there is just no way to grab it.

This will only mean fleets will change. Frequency wars are over. No more propeller aircraft at those airports. Instead, 747 and A380 will get more chances. But this is only possible if we own those rare slots to begin with. So from what I can tell it's still a "slot grabbing game" in the early days and it will become a huge fleet upgrade as time goes on. Also, competitors will be indestructable. Everyone has his share of slots and can't be attacked by the frequency mechanism. Since demand will be barely filled, it will be just a huge cash cow for everyone involved.

Offline schro

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #414 on: June 27, 2019, 02:55:32 PM »
well, yes, there was a case in GW2 where someone was accused of slot hogging. but since the airline used planes that were so small, they actually still made a profit, it was not considered slot-hogging.

Indeed. That starkly contrasts from a few incidents in GW4 where there was clear and blatant slot hogging through the significant oversupply of those sorts of routes. It's a lot harder to do that in the current era with the plane sizes available. In the past, buying up lots of slots like that was too expensive anyway...

Offline Mort

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #415 on: June 27, 2019, 02:56:00 PM »
If a big airport will be limited to 100 slots, there will be tons of uncovered demand at those places. Imagine there are no slots left in LHR, FRA, AMS, CDG, LAX, CDG, ATL, JFK, SIN, HKG...etc. Demand still grows and there is just no way to grab it.

This will only mean fleets will change. Frequency wars are over. No more propeller aircraft at those airports. Instead, 747 and A380 will get more chances. But this is only possible if we own those rare slots to begin with. So from what I can tell it's still a "slot grabbing game" in the early days and it will become a huge fleet upgrade as time goes on. Also, competitors will be indestructable. Everyone has his share of slots and can't be attacked by the frequency mechanism. Since demand will be barely filled, it will be just a huge cash cow for everyone involved.

It will be nice to give the larger aircraft a shot and not have a frequency war for a change!

I am still on the fence about the slot change overall, moreso on the numbers side of things, but that can easily be tuned down the line. I have no qualms particularly with slots only being introduced with airport expansions, that is logical, these slots can't just appear out of thin air.

As Sami said, this is the first GW where it has been introduced from the start, so might as well let it run it's course and see how things play out.

Offline DanDan

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #416 on: June 27, 2019, 02:59:38 PM »
good point. maybe a "minimum aircraft size" is something to think of at airports with constant slot restrictions? so at some point the F27 is banned from flying to LHR or something. maybe something that can be connected with CBD implementation (since then the slot availability is going to be much more "relative" - no slots in LHR? ok, i am going to serve that destination from LGW)

Offline Aero

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #417 on: June 28, 2019, 07:53:50 AM »
A minimum plane size is not the problem,as we have a 4th fleet penalty and technology is follow rapidly,players will stay on 2 fleet and 3rd for transition.
Deactivate the seat block option so everyone can only fly routes which there type support.So you can only fly when the demand support.
If this is 1st game world where this slot distribution start,maybe an experiment with no seat block option would be helpfull too against the bus schedules.(you actually can only fly the routes then and not lock slots any more as oversupply is 200% aswell)

If this can be done,it will change the landscape on slot limited airports
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 08:02:04 AM by Aero »

Offline Mort

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #418 on: June 28, 2019, 08:02:54 AM »
A minimum plane size is not the problem,as we have a 4th fleet penalty and technology is follow rapidly,players will stay on 2 fleet and 3rd for transition.
Deactivate the seat block option so everyone can only fly routes which there type support.So you can only fly when the demand support.
If this is 1st game world where this slot distribution start,maybe an experiment with no seat block option would be helpfull too against the bus schedules.(you actually can only fly the routes then and not lock slots any more as oversupply is 200% aswell)

If the entire seat block option is disabled, how are you supposed to control the pax to cargo ratio on combi planes?

Seems like rather a sledgehammer solution to a very minor problem.

Offline MikeS

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Re: Changelog and Previews comment thread
« Reply #419 on: June 28, 2019, 12:19:13 PM »
Seat block is necessary early in the game as many destinations have limited demand vs aircraft capacity but still profitable when flown (cheap fuel).
In any case, seat block could be exchanged with a reduced seat configuration (more work and more costly,but doable).
At the end of the day, it's a strategy game with different tactics and if you think an airline is over doing it just report it....
Mike

 

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