Very slow server, is it worth our fees?

[Kadachiman]

I appreciate the qualities of the game but it is unsustainable that loading and editing routes and aircraft comes with such a long wait for the server to respond. This needs to be fixed - get more processing power, lower the fees or you'll see players go elsewhere

I assume that since you have found the 'slowness of the game' problem to be at you end that you have sent a PM of apology to the game admin?

[meiru]

I assume that ... you have sent a PM of apology to the game admin?

Guys like you should be banned from all forums ... this whole "everything is fine, let's smoke an other joint and try to find out what the rosa elephant does next" will one day lead to the end of mankind!

[Kadachiman]

I will have some of what you are smoking as it sure beats what I have :-)
PS - actually I have never 'smoked' in my life, but thank-you for your analysis

And personally I think that you are incorrect as I believe that it will be the lack of Common Courtesy and Mutual Respect for Others that will bring about the end of mankind


I actually do not see what your issue is...the OP posted that the game server is crap and that therefore he was not getting value for money, so when the problem proved to be his end I would have expected that he would make good with his prior accusation....common courtesy

Happy to continue this discussion in PM as it does not belong here.

[meiru]

And you are incorrect as it is the lack of Common Courtesy and Respect for Others that will bring about the end of mankind

Not at all. Not being able to talk about things that don't work, that's the biggest problem today. If something is rubbish, it is rubbish, remains rubbish and will never be something else than rubbish. And if I cannot say this but have to say things like "well, you know... probably the is a slight chance of a possibility, that this product might be improved in the future... somehow". This leads to a slow down in development and the quality of the products will for sure not improve! That's what I learned in the past 20 years in my job!

If you're always polite, a lot of people never ever learn something and they never ever change something, because they have the feeling, that what they did was good!!!

[Kadachiman]

Not at all. Not being able to talk about things that don't work, that's the biggest problem today. If something is rubbish, it is rubbish, remains rubbish and will never be something else than rubbish. And if I cannot say this but have to say things like "well, you know... probably the is a slight chance of a possibility, that this product might be improved in the future... somehow". This leads to a slow down in development and the quality of the products will for sure not improve! That's what I learned in the past 20 years in my job!

If you're always polite, a lot of people never ever learn something and they never ever change something, because they have the feeling, that what they did was good!!!

No problem with saying something is rubbish otherwise (as you say) we would never advance, however when your statement is proved incorrect then you should acknowledge that....easy to be a knocker but very hard to be a contributor.

Anyway, over to PM if you desire

[JumboShrimp]

Not at all. Not being able to talk about things that don't work, that's the biggest problem today. If something is rubbish, it is rubbish, remains rubbish and will never be something else than rubbish. And if I cannot say this but have to say things like "well, you know... probably the is a slight chance of a possibility, that this product might be improved in the future... somehow". This leads to a slow down in development and the quality of the products will for sure not improve! That's what I learned in the past 20 years in my job!

I go daily on websites of companies that have multimillion IT budgets, and most of these web sites are nowhere near the quality and responsiveness of AWS.  So I really have no idea what standard you are trying to hold AWS to...

For vast majority of users, the speed is just fine.  I would rather see the development be targeted into adding more features, more depth of the simulation rather than tweaking, squeezing the last millisecond out of the response time.

Some productivity improvements (for the users) can be achieved via features / functionality.  For example, functionality such as, "Create Route like this the next day" added more value than any speed optimization.

[Tiberius]

I could write you a tool that does the 7 HTTP POST's within seconds and completely automaticly... 

That would be awesome, but the original topic I can do a 7 day schedule in about 2 minutes.

[meiru]

That would be awesome, but the original topic I can do a 7 day schedule in about 2 minutes.

Depending on how many flights you have, it might be possible to do ... but it's difficult, because you have to make so many server calls and because of the restrictions we have (you cannot create more than 35 flights before the system want's you to assign them to an aircraft) ... but if someone would build a complete offline Client for AWS... then... it may be possible (maybe not 2 minutes, but maybe building it in 2 minutes plus uploading it in 4 minutes) 

[meiru]

... however when your statement is proved incorrect then you should acknowledge that...

ok, you're right... he sayed the Problem was the responsiveness of the server and that's not always true (but sometimes)... the main problem is the scripts that the page delivers  ... and this can be measured

[meiru]

I go daily on websites of companies that have multimillion IT budgets, and most of these web sites are nowhere near the quality and responsiveness of AWS...

I know, I know... but... do you compare yourself always with the worst of the bad ones? You would always find something that's worse than what you have in front of you. Does this mean, that nothing should be ever improved, simply because you can find something worse??

[knobbygb]

So, bickering about manners aside - since the subject has been brought up - do we know why closing routes is so much slower than everything else in the game?  It's always annoyed me a little but I've never thought it worth logging a bug report about.  Since others are also experiencing the same, this might be a good time to sort it out. 

As somebody else said, it takes approximated 8 to 10 seconds to close each route. Surely there is probably an obvious bug in that bit of code which might be easily rectified. Closing, say, 21 routes, 3x 7 day schedules almost gives one enough time to make a cup of coffee!  Well, I exaggerate of course but still...

[Sami]

Yes, that is not normal. My guess it has got to do with slots, so try without slot release if that is faster? But have to check it as in normal ops absolutely NO user query takes longer than 0.1-0.2 secs or so
...

[meiru]

... so try without slot release if that is faster?

I never ever closed a route with slot release. I always closed them without and it always took a very long time to complete. My guess was, that it is because of the fact that I did not release the slots... seems that was a wrong guess.

[Sami]

Okay, it's not that then, was just a random guess without looking the code yet. Have to investigate later on (next/starting week), most likely it's evident only on large game worlds (= all of them these days), but have to go through what all it does (quite many things) when a route is closed.

[Sami]

Route closure is fixed, there was one "database cleanup" type of query involved which was unnecessary there and slowed it down..Something that wasn't visible on the dev/test servers where I usually run small games with only a couple of test airlines. Closing a route takes now no more than <0.5 secs alltogether.  (...why didn't anyone report this earlier? ..since it's clearly abnormal if any action takes more than 1 sec to process at the server side)

[JumboShrimp]

(...why didn't anyone report this earlier?

There was an easy workaround: after clicking "close route", I don't wait for the result screen, I just close the browser tab, knowing it eventually completes.

[Curse]

Route closure is fixed, there was one "database cleanup" type of query involved which was unnecessary there and slowed it down..Something that wasn't visible on the dev/test servers where I usually run small games with only a couple of test airlines. Closing a route takes now no more than <0.5 secs alltogether.  (...why didn't anyone report this earlier? ..since it's clearly abnormal if any action takes more than 1 sec to process at the server side)

To be honest? I didn't report it because many of those small problems were simply ignored in the past, as well as the feature request forum was closed. I'm happy to see some of them now are implemented (like the jump-to-page-XY).

However, I still think back on my feature request where I asked you to play a full gameworld with effort (or take over an established airline, I still offer you my airlines for doing so!) to see all the small things that annoy but can't be seen in a dev environment.


Edit: Forgot the most important thing! Thanks for fixing that, sami. I noticed it while playing and it really made me smile. Imho that's the best feature for AWS since I started playing. Now the only big annoying thing is the tech-stop penalty.... take a look at my GW#4 airline (for example LAX-Dubai, Miami-Dubai, Miami-Tel Aviv etc.) and you must notice this, too.

[JumboShrimp]

However, I still think back on my feature request where I asked you to play a full gameworld with effort (or take over an established airline, I still offer

I would like to see Sami do price management of an airline with 500 routes from HQ plus 100s more from bases, to see the frustration and futility of it, first hand. 

[Curse]

That would actually be part of playing a full gameworld

[meiru]

(...why didn't anyone report this earlier?

the others sayed it... you are very fast in distributing [-]... and then you start talking about the problem... that's why I left the game completely at the moment...