Quick beta available

[NorgeFly]

But I would not limit it to LHR.  Any airport slot that is "green" should be normal rate, "orange" should be say 2x, "red" shold be something like 4x (or whatever it would take to make small aircraft unprofitable in that time slot).

I agree not only LHR, but it should not be applied to regional airports (definition a bit tricky I know) as they are not the problem.

And I see where you're coming from with the green/orange/red thing, but the problem with that is that by time it gets to red it's too late. Ideally the fees at problem airports should be high right from the start to prevent the initial influx of small aircraft which swamp popular airports early on. High fees once it's full is too late.

[JumboShrimp]

Anyway. Focus on this test game world, and pls keep this topic for only those matters.

We are keeping it on the test game.  There is an airline hapily flying 14x Q400 between LHR and CDG.  He could easily add another 14x.

Doing that is a great strategy in AWS.  But somehow, it is not what happens in RL.  So the discussion is how to make flying 30x Q400 between LHR and CDG not a viable strategy...

[meiru]

But you can achieve the same CI, same RI, same comfort level on small aircraft as on larger aircraft.  So then everything is equal except frequency and we are back where we started.

yes, but... you can offer lower prices and larger seats (quality) and so on... and by the way, the RI ... what's that? Route-Image? it shouldn't always go up to 100 and reamain there... this should be the quality of the service and then it works

[Sami]

We are keeping it on the test game.  There is an airline hapily flying 14x Q400 between LHR and CDG.  He could easily add another 14x.

Doing that is a great strategy in AWS.  But somehow, it is not what happens in RL.  So the discussion is how to make flying 30x Q400 between LHR and CDG not a viable strategy...

See my post earlier today on this, there was a rq for you too.

(he is NOT doing that great on those routes I believe, if you see my post about KazAir's data, so the problem you are disucssing is pretty much solved already according to that .. But needs further testing still)

[meiru]

I'm really thinking I'm gonna go build my own AirwaySim, with blackjack and hookers.

[JumboShrimp]

I agree not only LHR, but it should not be applied to regional airports (definition a bit tricky I know) as they are not the problem.

It is extremely rare to see orange at a regional airport.  I checked.  I flew to most airports in MT6.  It is rare to see anythign but green.  So this change would have almost zero effect on regional airports.

And I see where you're coming from with the green/orange/red thing, but the problem with that is that by time it gets to red it's too late. Ideally the fees at problem airports should be high right from the start to prevent the initial influx of small aircraft which swamp popular airports early on. High fees once it's full is too late.

With the current method of slot growth (starting at lower ~50% of normal for the year, growing to ~200% - I may be off on percentages), the slots run out very quickly at the most slot constrained airports.

The fees we are talking about are ongoing landing fees (or slot usage fees, or congestion surcharges), not slot acquisition fees, which are separate.
If the ongoing landing fees when slots are in red are high enough to make small aircraft unprofitable, then the opeators of these flights would disappear over time, freeing up the slots.  So it is never too late.

[JumboShrimp]

See my post earlier today on this, there was a rq for you too.

(he is NOT doing that great on those routes I believe, if you see my post about KazAir's data, so the problem you are disucssing is pretty much solved already according to that .. But needs further testing still)

Ok, will try to find the post.  And also test it myself.  I just got 4xQ400 delivered to do some more testing...

[Sami]

Pls use large planes against him (Q400) on that route, you had some 330s flying there but may wish to use something like 320.

FRA-CDG was the route .. me thinks.  

[JumboShrimp]

yes, but... you can offer lower prices and larger seats (quality) and so on...

If all inclusive cost per passenger (including aircraft acquisition, staffing, other operational costs) of a full A320 is identical to a full smaller aircraft, would mean there are no economies of scale, and price cutting is completely a moot point.

and by the way, the RI ... what's that? Route-Image? it shouldn't always go up to 100 and reamain there... this should be the quality of the service and then it works

Perhaps you are right, but it is not part of the current set of changes.

[JumboShrimp]

Pls use large planes against him (Q400) on that route, you had some 330s flying there but may wish to use something like 320.

FRA-CDG was the route .. me thinks.  

Ok, I will do that.  I just needed to have some route to make money against my Boston route that was losing money early on.

[Kazari]

Ok, I will do that.  I just needed to have some route to make money against my Boston route that was losing money early on.

I look forward to it. My planes are configured 68Y 0C, FYI.

And it's 250 flights a day among 7 planes. 

Their current (un)profitability is shown below.

[JumboShrimp]

I look forward to it. My planes are configured 68Y 0C, FYI.

And it's 250 flights a day among 7 planes. 

Their current (un)profitability is shown below.

Ok, I have 8 x A320 with 150 pax each, 138 Y, 10 C.  Just under 1200 total supply.  I need to wait 2 weeks to get the A320s delivered.  Good thing is that I am starting from 100 RI, so we should see the results right away.

I counted 38x day Q400, and Admin has 5x ATR.

[JumboShrimp]

I look forward to it. My planes are configured 68Y 0C, FYI.

And it's 250 flights a day among 7 planes. 

Their current (un)profitability is shown below.

Just curious about flight spacing.  Do you have any flights that have nothing close to them within 1 hour?  I see most of your flights have spacing of 30 mins, which should be just fine in MT6 (even 20 min would have been fine).  I am not sure if that changed and 30 mins is no longer "safe".  If any of the low LFs are coming from that or from an algorithm adjustments.

[JumboShrimp]

Here is the route we are talking about:
https://www.airwaysim.com/game/Routes/Planning/LFPG/EDDF

[meiru]

That's fine... the DH8D guy should get most of passengers if he's offering the same price, since quality seems not to be modeled.

[JumboShrimp]

That's fine... the DH8D guy should get most of passengers if he's offering the same price, since quality seems not to be modeled.

My aircraft is not flying yet.  But there is something else going on that is encouraging:

Sami is supplying only ~13% of capacity, and is getting 26% of demand.  Using roughly equivalent, actually slower aircraft (but I know speed is not modeled in yet).

That means that there is some penalty for flying too many times per day.  Of course the way to go about nuking your competitor is to fly the max per day, not any more, get maximum frequency benefit, maximum profitability, and not supply the route fully.  (Maybe something along the lines what NorgeFly was talking about...)

[brique]

My aircraft is not flying yet.  But there is something else going on that is encouraging:

Sami is supplying only ~13% of capacity, and is getting 26% of demand.  Using roughly equivalent, actually slower aircraft (but I know speed is not modeled in yet).

That means that there is some penalty for flying too many times per day.  Of course the way to go about nuking your competitor is to fly the max per day, not any more, get maximum frequency benefit, maximum profitability, and not supply the route fully.  (Maybe something along the lines what NorgeFly was talking about...)

So, over-cooking the frequency becomes self-destructive, profit-wise : that would be an elegant solution indeed

[JumboShrimp]

Wow, all I can say Impressive!

Recap:
Kazari: 37xQ400
Sami: 5xATR72
Jumbo: 8xA320

Supply = 150% Demand

Here are LFs of 8xA320.  Maybe Kazari can post his screen shot (maybe on 18th, to get full 7 days of me flying).

[Pilot Oatmeal]

Any chance we can see kazari and sami's LFs?

[JumboShrimp]

I look forward to it. My planes are configured 68Y 0C, FYI.

And it's 250 flights a day among 7 planes. 

Their current (un)profitability is shown below.

Hi Kazari,

Can you post a picture of a bunch of routes (not aircraft) on this route?  I would like to see if and how my addition of about 40% of demand changed things.  If you are being limited strictly by the too high frequency or if competition figures into it as well.