Starting out: Short vs. long routes?

[mj103]

Hi guys.  I'm new to the game and am enjoying it, but I can't seem to get myself off the ground.  Just looking for a little friendly advice on starting up.

I'm a little confused on the best routes to start with.  My longer routes with bigger planes (e.g. Mumbai to Riyadh with a Boeing 727) seem to bring in a lot more revenue, but as I look at different smaller airlines I see that many of them are comprised mostly of smaller, more regional routes. 

Are there certain planes I should be choosing to start out with and I'm just not getting it?  Any advice on any of this or the routes?  I've been bankrupt once and am looking for a new startup airport for the second time, so I'd like to make this one at least decent!

Thanks in advance.

[Sami]

There is really no single answer to this. Just maximize the aircraft usage and maximize the profits (= try to find routes with unflown demand and fly also C class instead of plain Y).

And minimize your airline's fixed costs (staff)..

[mj103]

Do I not need to run at 100% staff?  That's interesting.

[Sami]

Well you can save a few bucks from there too, and the CEO salary to 0$ and so on. At startup try to save everywhere you can but maximize the profits.

Perhaps key is to use the same fleet aircraft type until you reach a size of 5-10 planes or so..

[mj103]

Right, I definitely screwed that up.  Thoguht I read the start-up manual before, but obivously missed that part until i re-read it.  I guess my initial question goes back to that, as it doesn't seem like the same "brand" of aircraft often has both short-haul and long-haul aircraft.  So basically I was curious if it was a better strategy to start off with a few short routes making smaller profits, or one or two longer routes (presuming similar levels of competition, etc.).

[Sami]

As said there really isn't a single answer "yes/no" to that.

[mj103]

Haha, ok.  Guess I'll just give it a whirl.

[Talentz]

Hello!


As what was said before, both work just as well. There are players who have very good short haul strategies and players who have great long haul strategies. Yet both end up having a Top 5 airline.

It really depends on two factors:

Location: Is your base more domestic or international? LHR is LH king but LGA is almost pure domestic. Both have strong demand and can support a Top 5 airline.

Competition: Are you alone? Do you have 5 players based with you? If your alone, then any strat will do. If there's 10 others.. maybe LH will work better as you fly away from your competition and not against it.

Generally, short haul easier. Its faster to expand and provides more up front entertainment.

Long haul can be much harder. If your pure LH it takes more skill to succeed. But the rewards are well worth the extra work you'll have to do.


In the end, to each his own. Whichever you feel or decided you want to do.



Talentz

[mj103]

Thanks!  This really seems like a game that's just trial and error, I guess.  I think the first step is trying to keep come fleet commonality.  It will also probably help to start at the beginning of a game when the routes aren't quite so monopolized by existing airlines.

[Rasunda]

It all depends on(as said), which airport you are stationed in.
My airline is stationed at ESSA(ARN). And that airport is great for short- and long haul. However, I am focusing on domestic. And that is turning out great.

[mj103]

That actually transitions into my next question.  I'm currently based out of Las Vegas, which is obviously very good for domestic but not much else.  While I'm (finally) starting to get some money rolling in and am perfectly happy about that, it would be fun to eventually have some longhaul, overseas flights, but there's no demand to/from Vegas.

My question is two parts:  1)  Does an aircraft's range "reset" upon landing?  For instance, if I were (hypothetically) flying a route to Washington DC and then wanted to go onto Madrid, would said jet have its full range again upon taking off from Washington? 

2)  If the range does indeed reset, would the route demand be based on that one leg of the flight (Washington to Madrid and back) or just the starting airport and final destination (Las Vegas to Madrid and back) with Washington pretty much just being used as a fuel station?

Thanks for your help!

[Kazari]

Hello:

1. Yes it does reset.

2. The demand is from that second city to the third one. So in an A-B-C-B-A run, you are only getting the B-C and C-B demand.

[mj103]

Great!  I assumed that was true, but the planes required to run a route like that are a big investment to just find out it doesn't work.

Thanks for your help!

[Caesar_585]

The demand is from that second city to the third one. So in an A-B-C-B-A run, you are only getting the B-C and C-B demand.

This is not exactly true..... you can setup the flight to just refuel at Dulles in DC in which case you get demand from Vegas to Madrid i.e. A-C  instead of A-B-C-B-A  and since you refueled you will have full range but since it has no demand that makes almost no sense.

and in terms of you first question,

I'm a little confused on the best routes to start with.  My longer routes with bigger planes (e.g. Mumbai to Riyadh with a Boeing 727) seem to bring in a lot more revenue, but as I look at different smaller airlines I see that many of them are comprised mostly of smaller, more regional routes.

As what was said before, both work just as well. There are players who have very good short haul strategies and players who have great long haul strategies. Yet both end up having a Top 5 airline.

It really depends on two factors:

Location: Is your base more domestic or international? LHR is LH king but LGA is almost pure domestic. Both have strong demand and can support a Top 5 airline.

Competition: Are you alone? Do you have 5 players based with you? If your alone, then any strat will do. If there's 10 others.. maybe LH will work better as you fly away from your competition and not against it.

Generally, short haul easier. Its faster to expand and provides more up front entertainment.

Long haul can be much harder. If your pure LH it takes more skill to succeed. But the rewards are well worth the extra work you'll have to do.


In the end, to each his own. Whichever you feel or decided you want to do.



Talentz

take my personal situation right now.... in beginners world i started my airline in LGA with the intent of strictly short-haul just over a year and a half ago and have already  grown to almost 50 aircraft  with over 2000 weekly routes and 'hubbing' from quite a few cities whereas some other airlines established since the start of the game cant achieve this yet. Its not only about starting at the beginning but the later you  start you just  have to plan wisely and one thing I try to stay as far away as possible from  at the beginning is loans as even though its appealing for quick expansion, in the long run its much more difficult to turn a decent profit.

Also with keeping with fleet commonality....... try to keep routes as few as possible and fly it as often as possible in the beginning so marketing fees will be minimal and it will be easier to turn a profit since the more times you fly a route, passengers will be more willing to fly with you.

Just a few pointers..... if you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask..... there's many people wiling to give advice.

[mj103]

Thank you for the help!  I seem to have gotten the hang of turning a profit and keeping my airline afloat, so now I'm just trying to figure out the finer points of the game. 

In the last Beginner's World, I came into the game half-way through or so and was using Boeing jets and Saab 2000 turboprops.  However, at this point in the new game, Saabs are not available.  Could you suggest some good alternatives?

[MattDell]

For turboprops, I'm a fan of the Dash-8's.

[mj103]

Funny, I put some on order just before I saw your suggestion.  Thanks!

[Jona L.]

couldn't read all due to lack of time; so my tips:

Find an airport between Large but much use, and less use, but no demand!
I like MLA if the game is full already

than look for routes you are interested in (high demand/very low use/high range/etc.)
than go to the used market, and see if there's a plane giving you the capacity/range/low fuel burnage/etc. you need, and try to get it!
          also use loans for that (--> Office --> Loans)

VERY IMPORTANT
try to get a route with high to very high (500-2500PAX/day) and the very largest distance you can serve with possible planes (2000NM+) a big plane for it (A300/A330/A340/A380/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC10/L1011/MD11), and enough money to purchse the aircraft!

open routes after leasing the plane
and use a higher turn around time (raise until ~1%is show right of it)

Default (minimum)	time for ~1% delay risk
20min	35-40min
25min	45min
35min	60min
40min	70min
70min	120min
80min	135min
120min	200min

put the salaries for the CEO to 0$ (you can't get real money out of that, or use it for the game!)
also set staff salaries/levels by hand (or the buttons below the personal office) instead of using the (default) automatic settings (they hire 101%)

this should make starting easier!!

[JonnyAngel]

Okay,

So here's my newbie question. I'm trying to decide on adding baby number 2 to the fleet, but I'm gun shy as a) I've gone bust 3 times already and b) the costs are prohibitive. I want to keep common type and common configuration, but, the initial lease costs are out of my league (dealing 733s).

If I go with a different type, I can probably get the plane fairly affordably, but jack my maintenance costs. And while I'm making a profit off my current run, its not like I'm making super profits and actually building a war chest. So what do you think? Should I hold off another month or so and then add plane two? I just don't want to stagnate...