Is Airway sim dying?

[swiftus27]

I think it does take hours per day (especially when your bases are being attacked by players who also spend hours per day).
For me, the time is spent looking for good used planes, researching and adding new routes (since my old ones are getting copied and hammered), readjusting and optimizing my schedule (to squeeze in more frequencies on a competitive route, or increase aircraft utilization by adding more routes), looking for slots at profitable but overcrowded airports (LHR), and avoiding the tax man.

In particular, the "looking" for highly coveted things such as newer, fuel-efficient planes on the used market; or slots at LHR and old HND, etc. takes a long time, and players who only log in once or twice a day can survive but will not have a chance competing head-on against people who are online for most of the day. And when one of those players invades your base(s) and/or tries to BK you, you have to fight them head-on and can't just "play your own game."

Tax management is also much more easily done by players who are online often and can keep track of their profits at end of the calendar month. The airline that avoids tax withholding up front is going to have a significant advantage over the airline that gets a big tax refund but loses the money until refund day.

Dude, you started playing 2 months ago.  

Maybe you'll someday learn that it can be fun NOT flying at a tier 1 airport trying to be the biggest/baddest/etc.  Flying out of ORD or LHR invites pros and tons of newb airlines.  It isn't fun having to watch over your shoulder in these games.  Sure, many veterans always flock to those airports, but you'll see that they are generally trying some place new (with some people who must use ORD or LAX, for instance).  And I can assure you that they will in MT7 as it presents new challenges.  Guess what, though.... you're on a level playing field now.  You can beat them now because they don't have the easy winning formula.  No crying here.   Learn the new perfect strategy for your next airport and take it to them. 

[JJP]

I think it does take hours per day (especially when your bases are being attacked by players who also spend hours per day).
For me, the time is spent looking for good used planes, researching and adding new routes (since my old ones are getting copied and hammered), readjusting and optimizing my schedule (to squeeze in more frequencies on a competitive route, or increase aircraft utilization by adding more routes), looking for slots at profitable but overcrowded airports (LHR), and avoiding the tax man.

In particular, the "looking" for highly coveted things such as newer, fuel-efficient planes on the used market; or slots at LHR and old HND, etc. takes a long time, and players who only log in once or twice a day can survive but will not have a chance competing head-on against people who are online for most of the day. And when one of those players invades your base(s) and/or tries to BK you, you have to fight them head-on and can't just "play your own game."

Tax management is also much more easily done by players who are online often and can keep track of their profits at end of the calendar month. The airline that avoids tax withholding up front is going to have a significant advantage over the airline that gets a big tax refund but loses the money until refund day.

Yes, this would be exactly my sentiment in response to your inquiry, Sami.  Thank you for asking.  It was a legitimate question.

[JJP]

Dude, you started playing 2 months ago.  

Maybe you'll someday learn that it can be fun NOT flying at a tier 1 airport trying to be the biggest/baddest/etc.  Flying out of ORD or LHR invites pros and tons of newb airlines.  It isn't fun having to watch over your shoulder in these games.  Sure, many veterans always flock to those airports, but you'll see that they are generally trying some place new (with some people who must use ORD or LAX, for instance).  And I can assure you that they will in MT7 as it presents new challenges.  Guess what, though.... you're on a level playing field now.  You can beat them now because they don't have the easy winning formula.  No crying here.   Learn the new perfect strategy for your next airport and take it to them. 

This is exactly the attitude I would hope to avoid.  I am sorry there are those of you who feel that way.  This goes back to my entire point that significantly increasing the number of game worlds would allow for players like Esquire and me to enjoy basing at some of the larger airports and competing with players more on our level.  I understand that there are players who are very good at the game.  I am intelligent enough to learn the "perfect strategy", but I neither have the time nor the patience to employ it.  I would like a relatively easy-going game with a few heart-pounding, friendly competition moments to keep it interesting.

When I first started this game, I really did quite well basing at mid-sized airports: good, solid demand, plenty of profit, etc.  However, the last couple times I tried it, I got absolutely destroyed -not by the players at my base, but by the big boys at Atlanta, Chicago, etc. who decided to set up a second hub in my backyard and systematically destroy my routes.  I'm not crying, I am simply stating a fact of the current dynamic of the game. 

Now, there are a LOT of very good players (at least it seems that way to me), and I'm glad they were able to learn how to play very well.  But, that makes the current 3-worlds at a time (only) system very, VERY crowded.  It provides no leeway for the casual/new player.

Thank you,

JJP

[esquireflyer]

Dude, you started playing 2 months ago.  

Maybe you'll someday learn that it can be fun NOT flying at a tier 1 airport trying to be the biggest/baddest/etc.  Flying out of ORD or LHR invites pros and tons of newb airlines.  It isn't fun having to watch over your shoulder in these games.  Sure, many veterans always flock to those airports, but you'll see that they are generally trying some place new (with some people who must use ORD or LAX, for instance).  And I can assure you that they will in MT7 as it presents new challenges.  Guess what, though.... you're on a level playing field now.  You can beat them now because they don't have the easy winning formula.  No crying here.   Learn the new perfect strategy for your next airport and take it to them.  

Nothing you've written here applies to me (other than saying that I only started playing 2 months ago; but JJP, who started playing before you did, said that he agrees completely with everything I wrote).

I didn't headquarter in a tier 1 airport or try to be biggest/baddest. I don't base in ORD or LHR. Surely you are not suggesting that I shouldn't fly from my bases to ORD or LHR at all? If people who can only log in once or twice a day can never hope to fly to ORD or LHR at all, then where's the fun in that?

I based in a 2nd tier airport (BOS) in both DOTM and JA. In JA I have done well (but it takes hours per day), but in DOTM, even while based in BOS I was chased by a huge player to BOS, who attacked my L1011 tristar routes with tech-stopped 727s and BK'ed me. So I had to move to GUM, a 3rd-tier airport--i.e, I did exactly what you said "NOT flying at a tier 1 airport trying to be the biggest/baddest/etc." And I did not "learn that it can be fun." I learned that it can be OK. But it is not going to be as much fun when the routes and options are so limited. More options and more possibilities = more fun.

But to base even at a 2nd tier airport, you have to be willing dedicate a lot of time to the game. If you only spend a little time, you will do OK as long as no big competitors come to your base. But as soon as someone who spends hours/day on the game opens up in your base, if you continue to log in only once per day, you be quickly wiped out like I was in DOTM-BOS.

I have done well in JA in BOS (and eventually DEN, SFO, and GUM again) and fought off attackers only by spending a lot of time on the game.

Also, how rude. I wasn't "crying" or even starting a complaint thread. Instead, I was responding directly to sami's question of whether it really takes hours to manage an airline in this game. I answered his question and explained the reasons for my answer. If you call that "crying," then I don't see how sami is ever supposed to get the information he requests from the player community.

[schro]

Nothing you've written here applies to me (other than saying that I only started playing 2 months ago; but JJP, who started playing before you did, said that he agrees completely with everything I wrote).

The point of swiftus pointing out that you have been in this community for just two months now is that with game worlds lasting 5-6 months, you have yet to experience a game world from start to finish, nor have you likely built a 500+ plane airline to be able to attest to the amount of time that it takes to maintain it. He's trying to put perspective from where your comments are coming from as to the real investment of time to play the game (and not do the I'm a veteran therefore more holier than thou routine).

Once you understand the game mechanics and what drives profitability in the game, it is very doable to build a decent airline that fares well against competition when logging in about once per day and only spending 30-60 minutes on it on a busy day.  In general, when you're expanding, you will spend a lot more time scheduling planes and researching routes (though, researching isn't hard if you are using a tabbed browser and are familiar with ctrl+click or middle click). As you get a feel for route times and schedules (this just takes playing the game), it becomes a lot easier.  If you are going into a maintenance mode while you are busier in life, you can check in every day or two, buy out a couple of planes to reduce your tax bill and check on your routes. If you have a well run airline (i.e. good plane/route selection) and are generally profitable, it is virtually impossible for a large airline to drop into your HQ city and knock you out. If you're only marginally profitable before they show up, then no amount of time in the world can help (unless you suddenly learn how to improve your techniques).

JA games are fairly easy because planes, fuel and staff are cheap relative to revenue, but demand is weak in most places.  DOTM games have better demand, but plane choice is a LOT more difficult as you really have to understand the best/most economical plane(s) for the routes that you fly (which largely depends on your geography). MT makes plane choice easy and demand is high, but fuel, labor and plane costs are also high.

So in short, I'm just saying that I disagree with your opinion that players that log in once a day and spend 30 minutes or less on average can't build a decent airline in the current game worlds.

[swiftus27]

KBOS is not a tier 2 airport. Heck. They're are direct flights to Narita in real life.  KCLE is a T2 airport. I wasn't saying that you're crying.  Just no crying allowed here.  

Once an individual has the mechanics down, this sim is tremendously easier.  The amount of time you want to invest is entirely up to you.

You can't comment on the number of games being played because, you're honestly out of your element.   You have no idea how many games went on at the same time prior to May of this year.  Sami runs a one man shop on the programming side and there are a few admins.  Sami also maintains a job.  He is smartly ramping up this sim.  He wanted to do some necessary changes to the sim.  Now there's someone newer to it griping about the number of available games.  Take a step back and realize that this is smart organic growth.  As AWS continues to expand, expect there to be more games, more variety, and lastly more fun.  

I say alot of this because I WAS here when the sim was easily abused... when there was 2 games going on...  the community here does an excellent job policing itself.  I just get annoyed because many people keep creating and bumping whine threads.  They demand Samis attention.  In the end, they're just taking away time better used working on game code.   

Seriously, I need to make a demotivator about this...  you only get to complain so much paying 1€ per week.

[JJP]

Once you understand the game mechanics and what drives profitability in the game, it is very doable to build a decent airline that fares well against competition when logging in about once per day and only spending 30-60 minutes on it on a busy day.

I definitely found this to be true when I played a couple of years ago.  I was very successful then (without "gaming the system").  I have not found that to be true currently.  

In general, when you're expanding, you will spend a lot more time scheduling planes and researching routes (though, researching isn't hard if you are using a tabbed browser and are familiar with ctrl+click or middle click). As you get a feel for route times and schedules (this just takes playing the game), it becomes a lot easier.  

I believe I have a pretty good handle on this.  I will admit that I have played nowhere near as many games as other individuals have, but I have played enough games to have a very solid understanding of hour these operations work.

If you are going into a maintenance mode while you are busier in life, you can check in every day or two, buy out a couple of planes to reduce your tax bill and check on your routes.

Definitely true if you do not have a "big-boy" competitor during that time period.

If you have a well run airline (i.e. good plane/route selection) and are generally profitable, it is virtually impossible for a large airline to drop into your HQ city and knock you out. If you're only marginally profitable before they show up, then no amount of time in the world can help (unless you suddenly learn how to improve your techniques).

I had recently joined DOTM #4 a while back at Salt Lake City.  I was doing very well aginst the hub competitors (I believe there were ~3).  In fact, I came to dominate the hub and was making ~1 million per week profit and had saved up enough money to order 20 - 30 BAC 111's -which were perfect for nearly all of my ~100 - 200 passenger routes of 1500 nm or less.

Well, all of a sudden, one of the players from Atlanta decided to set up shop at Salt Lake.  He completely decimated my routes.  I tried to hold him off long enough to get my BACs (that would have helped operations costs and profitability -not to mention the increased number of aircraft to compete with).  Unfortunately, my new planes were a year away from arriving.  Let's just say it did not work out well.  

I give this example simply to kindly disagree with your statement, "If you have a well run airline (i.e. good plane/route selection) and are generally profitable, it is virtually impossible for a large airline to drop into your HQ city and knock you out."  Maybe I didn't have a well-run airline?  Maybe.  Could I have done some things better?  Perhaps.  I did try to recruit some help from the mentors.  I wanted some pointers for just this type of situation.  Unfortunately, no one took up my request.  

So in short, I'm just saying that I disagree with your opinion that players that log in once a day and spend 30 minutes or less on average can't build a decent airline in the current game worlds.

I would say that can be true up until the point that the players at the large airlines decide that your base looks mighty delicious.  

Look, I know I am not a great player, but I am not a terrible player either.  Please don't take all of this as whining.  I am just trying to give a voice to those of us who are not "professional" players (and, I am in no where attempting to denegrate these individuals).

[swiftus27]

Honestly, I will not respond to 'bigger airline ate me'.   The bigger airline is at a massive disadvantage competing against you as he is limited to a max # of airplanes, his operating costs will be higher with the new base, will have to establish RI with the new lines, and not to mention that both airlines can start on the same day.

This isn't Hello Kitty Airline Sim.  You WILL fail out.  I've bk'd out many many times.   This is a business sim.  Businesses flunk out as well.  It just sucks when you put ~10 hours into an airline and XYZ veteran comes and kicks you in the teeth.   

[JJP]

Oh, boy.  I think we're talking in circles.  No one is asking for the sim to be dumbed down.  I believe my whole point so far has been that increasing the number of game worlds necessarily dilutes the number of veteran game players per world, increases the options for all players, and allows for a more forgiving game experience. 

Of course you have to run your airline well in this sim.  No one is saying otherwise.  Heck, plenty of people go bankrupt without any competition simply because they have not grasped the main concepts of the sim.  Or, they go bankrupt with the slightest bit of competition because they do not understand all of the different expenses affecting their game (etc.).  That is not what we're talking about.  We're talking about individuals who understand the game well, can run a successful airline, wish only to compete at their own hub, probably do some personal role-player, and enjoy the general feel of the entire sim. 

No one wants to take away anyone's right to the kind of competitions that currently exist.  We simply wish to add additional options for other players who do not take the game quite as seriously (for lack of a better term) as others.  The additonal options do not come from asking Sami to develop "Hello Kitty Airline Sim."  They come from simply increasing the number of concurrently available worlds significantly.

[schro]

I would say that can be true up until the point that the players at the large airlines decide that your base looks mighty delicious.  

From my perspective as a self-proclaimed veteran player (lol), when I go shopping for bases I look for a few things -

1. An airport large enough to support the maximum 100 plane limit for basing (this eliminates a LOT of options)
2. An airport that does not have a significant amount of competition (i.e. a smaller incumbant airline that looks weak and is not serving all of the unmet demand).
3. An airport that is not already covered by my alliance.

I don't go shopping for a new base until I have fully built out my HQ base, as it is a deterrant for other entrants and keeps my cost basis low for a longer period of time. However, if you're at a decent sized airport and not filling it out completely, it leaves room for me to make money by competing with you. It is borderline suicidal to go into a dominated airport.

If you've got a 200-300 plane fleet at your HQ, there's really no way a mega airline can show up with 100 planes and knock you out of business (with the "if you're well run" asterik applied).

I would also argue that BAC-111's are rather poor choices to fly 1000+ nm due to their small size (and therefore relatively higher cost per seat) if your goal is to make money with them. It might be more worthwhile with the demand system changes, but in the scenario you mentioned, you'd be better off with a single daily 722, M80 or 734 (I assume you were flying something even less efficient than the 111's at the time). How much revenue were you making when you had the 1m/wk profit? If you've got little to no competition in DOTM, I'd hope that represents at least 20-30% of your revenue.

[Sanabas]

I had recently joined DOTM #4 a while back at Salt Lake City.  I was doing very well aginst the hub competitors (I believe there were ~3).  In fact, I came to dominate the hub and was making ~1 million per week profit and had saved up enough money to order 20 - 30 BAC 111's -which were perfect for nearly all of my ~100 - 200 passenger routes of 1500 nm or less.

Well, all of a sudden, one of the players from Atlanta decided to set up shop at Salt Lake.  He completely decimated my routes.  I tried to hold him off long enough to get my BACs (that would have helped operations costs and profitability -not to mention the increased number of aircraft to compete with).  Unfortunately, my new planes were a year away from arriving.  Let's just say it did not work out well.  

I give this example simply to kindly disagree with your statement, "If you have a well run airline (i.e. good plane/route selection) and are generally profitable, it is virtually impossible for a large airline to drop into your HQ city and knock you out."  Maybe I didn't have a well-run airline?  Maybe.  Could I have done some things better?  Perhaps.  I did try to recruit some help from the mentors.  I wanted some pointers for just this type of situation.  Unfortunately, no one took up my request.

$1 million profit per week if not a generally profitable, well run airline, especially if you've got enough turnover to be dominating your hub. And if you don't have cash on hand, have taken out loans to order new planes, then you're probably in a pretty precarious position, and a large airline dropping 50+ planes in your HQ can tip you over the edge into losing money, and 24 hours real time, 6 weeks game time, might leave you in a hole too deep to recover from. Being online more probably won't help that, as the problem would be an inability to react due to lack of cash for used planes, and a big sunk cost on new planes that won't arrive for a long time. Making that sort of new order more or less boils down to gambling that the situation in your home airport won't change much until they arrive.

I've just started playing again after ~6 months away. I'll happily look at mentoring once I'm eligible, which probably takes a month before I qualify as recently active. I think once your airline is up & running, generally profitable (say 50-75 planes, 5+ million/week profit in DOTM now), then it will be fairly secure. A big competitor attacking it hard might hurt it, but won't destroy it, and certainly not within less than a RL week. An hour a day is heaps to maintain a large, well-run airline. Being online more can help you micromanage, squeeze extra $ out of things. And when a game is starting, you probably won't survive intense competition without being online more than that. Once your airline is big, once there isn't really scope for competitors to attack (France in JA, Turkey in MT6 were my last 2 airlines), even 1 hour a week is plenty to keep things going, the game can get fairly boring.

I'm currently in JFK. I've just started, about 24 hours ago. The airport didn't have anybody big when I started, biggest has 32 BACs and is growing slowly, and 2 bigger airlines have based there. Spent a few hours to do some route research, and schedule the 7 planes I got with my initial money. Now it's just a case of briefly checking in ~twice a day, and ordering another 727 if I have cash, scheduling the next 727 if one's about to arrive. A notepad file has a dozen or so routes with 727 times on them, so I just fill from that, takes maybe 10 minutes. I'm at 750k-1 million/week profit, though that'd be closer to 500k if leases had kicked in. Plan is more or less laid out, it'll run on that 20 minutes a day for the next 2 RL weeks or so, until I have ~40 727s, and an income base that I can then use to expand into newer & bigger planes. Some competition shouldn't affect that. A concerted attack now will, but a concerted attack will likely mean I choose to restart, no matter how many hours I was putting in. Once I have 40+ 727s, then I think I will be more or less safe from big airlines, I'll certainly have a fighting chance if someone tries something.

[Sanabas]

We're talking about individuals who understand the game well, can run a successful airline, wish only to compete at their own hub, probably do some personal role-player, and enjoy the general feel of the entire sim. 

You can. Really. But doing it in a US (or later, EU) airport that can happily support 100+ 100 seat planes, and doing it as a 30 plane airline, that's what won't work, that's what will leave you at the mercy of bigger airlines. But pick one outside the US (Look at Chile in DOTM now. biggest airline has 19 planes, 2 years old, looks very fragile, but has 40 million cash on hand. Peru has a 10 plane airline. Trinidad has none), or pick a smaller US airport (Boise & Long Beach are empty, for instance) and you can definitely do exactly what you want, have a 50 plane airline, stick to your own hub, RP all you want, and enjoy yourself. Big airlines dropping in won't be a problem, any competition will either be from other airlines flying just one of your routes, or brand new startups.

[Sami]

"Hello Kitty Airline Sim."

This is our next release actually. Due to appear on appstore on next April 1st.

[brique]

This is our next release actually. Due to appear on appstore on next April 1st.

Meh, I think I'll hold out for the 'Airline : Total War' release : how many air-to-air missiles can you fit on a F.27 anyway?

[ArcherII]

Meh, I think I'll hold out for the 'Airline : Total War' release : how many air-to-air missiles can you fit on a F.27 anyway?

LOL, I'd join you with Islanders out of LHR and drop some nukes..

[esquireflyer]

You can't comment on the number of games being played because, you're honestly out of your element.   You have no idea how many games went on at the same time prior to May of this year.

Before you hit me with "You can't comment on the number of games being played because, you're honestly out of your element" why don't you point to a post where I commented on the number of games being played? I made no such comment, and if you're not going to read closely enough to differentiate my posts from other people's posts, then you shouldn't be throwing mud at me personally.

I responded specifically to Sami's direct question of whether this game takes a large time commitment to play successfully. I said nothing about the number of games being run simultaneously.

Seriously, I need to make a demotivator about this...  you only get to complain so much paying 1€ per week.

Seriously, I was answering the developer's question. How is Sami supposed to get feedback if people are not allowed to answer his questions because they only pay €1 per week?
Why would Sami bother asking a question on the public forum if he did not want to hear from people who were "paying €1 per week"?

Swiftus, when I was first starting out on AWS, I read your newbie guide, and found it very helpful. But now, seeing the way you actually treat people who you view as newbies--yikes! 

[swiftus27]

You're completely off base there too.  Ask the legions of people who pm me asking for help.  I always attempt to help when I have time.  When it was discovered that people were using bot programs to get used planes, whose idea was to report that?  how about the # of refreshes to the used market?   I don't need to answer to you, but my ideas are about helping the average player compete.   I have a job/wife/house/........ I don't have time to sit in front of the monitor to play this sim.   I am mainly about learning new avenues and testing odd ways to play.  I ran a small airline test to see and verify how completely impossible it is running a fleet of Fairchild a/c.  

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion.  For the short period of time you've been simming, a major flaw with the sim has been identified and is targeted for fixing.  Sami won't create worlds simply to sate the appetite of people wanting to play.  He wants to do it correctly.   Therefore, he has postponed new games.

In the end, I really don't answer to anyone.  I am not a member of the staff of AWS.  I am merely someone who tries to help people understand that they didn't go to the store plunk down $59.99 and a $14.99 monthly to play AWS.  If so, I'd not blame them for saying/claiming whatever they wanted.  AWS has been and continues to be a work in process.  

Understand Sami doesn't just click 'Create Game'.  He also doesn't want to buy additional server space while he is working heavily on the code.  1.3 came out in December (or around then).  This is the first major change since.   Simply put again, you just haven't been here for a game cycle and you really don't know how it's been done.  Sorry if you take that offensively, but you're still brand new to AWS and we're glad to have you as an active member.  This is just what happens.

[esquireflyer]

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion.  For the short period of time you've been simming, a major flaw with the sim has been identified and is targeted for fixing.  Sami won't create worlds simply to sate the appetite of people wanting to play.  He wants to do it correctly.   Therefore, he has postponed new games. . . .
Understand Sami doesn't just click 'Create Game'.  He also doesn't want to buy additional server space while he is working heavily on the code.  1.3 came out in December (or around then).  This is the first major change since.   Simply put again, you just haven't been here for a game cycle and you really don't know how it's been done.  Sorry if you take that offensively, but you're still brand new to AWS and we're glad to have you as an active member.  This is just what happens.

I am not asking Sami to create more game universes (that was other people). So, if your primary thing against me is that you don't think I should be asking for more universes to be created, then I don't think that is an issue, because I have expressed no opinion on whether the number of universes should be increased. I also understand that creating additional universes would require substantial investment of time and server resources (though I can't say exactly how much), because I previously worked as a game designer for another company while I was in graduate school.

And I guess I will ignore your repeated statements about my "short period of time simming" and "not having been here," since (1) people who have been here for years stated, on the basis of their experience that they agreed with the points I stated, and (2) it seems that you are not going to stop criticizing my join date just because I ask you to.

So, moving on from the personal stuff to the substance: you raise an interesting point regarding the market-call system. I think it is a very good way to counteract botting. However, it is also a good example of a design feature which encourages living in front of the computer and/or playing for hours per day (which is the only topic on which I have stated an opinion here). Because players get 7 calls per game week, or approximately one call per gay day, and the AI brokers' blocks of planes also seem to be loaded once per game day (or something like that), if you want to be able to get hotly demanded planes on the used market (or get the best deals on medium-demand planes in good condition), you have a big advantage if you can be at the computer and call the market every 30-40 real world minutes. (And the same thing is true, to a lesser extent, for slots at high-demand airports, since players' unused slots get confiscated and relisted once per day also.)

If you only log in one one day in a game week (once per 3.5 hours or so in real life), or once per real-life day, you will have calls being "wasted" and expiring. And, if you use all 7 of your weekly calls during 30 real-world minutes, it won't help you any more than just calling 1 or 2 times during that 30-minute period would, since the brokers' plane blocks are not loaded that frequency.

So, going with the used-market example, a way to level the playing field a little between players who can live in front of the computer and players who can only log in once per day, would be, for example, to give players 31 market calls per game month, expiring at the end of the month rather than the end of each week, and divide up the broker planes into smaller, more frequently loaded batches (so that a player who calls the market 3-4 times in a game day will be able to see more results that day than a player who only calls once; the trade-off being that the first player will have used up a lot of his calls until the next time he logs in, whereas the second player call still call once per day for the following 2-3 days). That would allow people who only log in 1-2 times per real world day to make the most of their time during those 1-2 logins, if the game designer wants to do that.

And of course that's a big "if." It can be good for a designer to make a game that encourages people to play a lot, or play continuously. Zynga makes lots of money by specifically designing addictive, copycat-modeled games, for example. But with respect to sami's original question of whether it takes a long time to manage an airline in this game, my answer is that it does, because of several game features which tend to give players who spend hours an advantage, and because players who log in only once per day can be attacked by players who spend hours, thus requiring the players under attack to either also spend hours, or BK, or move to an airport that no one else would ever want to go to.

Which brings up what you said before about BOS supposedly being a first-tier airport because it has nonstop flights to NRT in the real world. First, when I said first-tier, I meant the airports you originally gave in your example (LHR, ORD), and I think it's pretty much indisputable that those airports are first tier and that BOS is not on the same level as those places. Second, as a veteran player you obviously know that the existence of one route in the real world says nothing about the viability of the same route in AWS (not to mention the viability of other routes generally from that airport), because of the way AWS demand is modeled (such as the lack of connecting traffic).

For example, you stated correctly that CLE is a second (or in my opinion third) tier airport in AWS. But in the real world, your example CLE is actually a base airport for the largest airline in the world. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a second/third tier airport in AWS. Because of connecting traffic, real-world airlines can open nonstop routes from (and even set their hubs in) second/third tier airports; so, the fact that an airport has a big airline presence in the real world does not preclude it from being a second or third tier airport in AWS.

I've tried to keep this post as substantive and civil as possible. In your response, if you could refrain from again emphasizing my newbie status, I would appreciate it, as I don't think it's necessary to make that point again when everyone already knows that that is what you think of me.

[ezzeqiel]

That would allow people who only log in 1-2 times per real world day to make the most of their time during those 1-2 logins, if the game designer wants to do that.

The ecuation "more time online = better" was true in every single online game I ever played.

WOW for example, demands a LOT of time on the computer, and it's the mmporg with most users. So online time required is not equal to amount of users. It's the game itself and the social community around it which attracts players or not.

[swiftus27]

For example, you stated correctly that CLE is a second (or in my opinion third) tier airport in AWS. But in the real world, your example CLE is actually a base airport for the largest airline in the world. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a second/third tier airport in AWS. Because of connecting traffic, real-world airlines can open nonstop routes from (and even set their hubs in) second/third tier airports; so, the fact that an airport has a big airline presence in the real world does not preclude it from being a second or third tier airport in AWS.

I am busy watching Sons of Anarchy so I don't have time to respond to your entire post.

Okay, as a resident of Cleveland Ohio, I will never ever declare my home airport to be anything more than it is.   Don't consider it a major base airport simply because of the Continited merger.   The majority of planes flying here are Dash 8s, CRJs and the occasional 737 (I think there's one 752 that flies to IAH).  The only 'heavy' that ever takes off is the DC10 that UPS owns (and is usually seen from I-480 sitting idle as usual).   Due to its size compared to the world, however, it is a 2nd tier airport.  United only has 2-3 years left on their contract with the city (with a massive penalty if they leave early).   CLE will soon become what happened to STL after the TWA bankruptcy...  that's just a few years away

Secondly.... Dude, I hope that I has already made it clear that I have nothing personal with you.  In my personal opinion, you've been kind of 'bull-in-china-shop' recently and I wanted you to just tone it down a notch.  Every time the sim slows down, great things have always emerged on the other side.  That's the point I am trying to get across.    We like you as an active member.  I am not being combative with you.... end of line

Also, there needs to be a blend between people who can and can not afford to play.  The current system is incredibly better and again, I emphasize due to your recent arrival how it already changed AWS for the better.      Back to Sons.... great show.