Let's try again then

[6Pack]

We get three attempts at a game, correct?  Well, instead of just waiting around for a new game to show up, I did some research and found a few airports with a high percentage of passengers without any airlines being based there.  I think I can find a few routes that have no competition and may work for me.  Take what knowledge I can from SoCal and build up right? 

Now, this made me think of something else.  To all you guys in the big leagues, how do you do it?  Do you take what little cash you start with and buy a single larger aircraft like a 737 or something along those lines and expand from there, or do you start like a commuter airline with a number of 1900's and as you make money, evolve in to an express type airline, to a domestic airline then to an international airline?  Gradually removing your smaller aircraft in favor of commonality of larger jetliners?  Hmm,  I ask a lot of questions, but believe me I do absorb the knowledge I get.  I love learning about new games, especially business simulation and especially those of aviation nature.

[6Pack]

Alright, neat.

I think I put a little more consideration into this one.  Enterprise Airways out of Minneapolis.  I just leased two 737-500's.  The one I have is running three round trips a day to Denver, Sky Harbor and JFK, except the Denver route isn't being flown on Saturday as it conflicts with maintenance (see, told ya I absorbed knowledge, not having all flights flown every single day  )   All three routes have no competition and all destinations have a high popular demand.  Now while I wait two weeks for the second Boeing to get here, do you think I should have the second plane fly the same routes to boost those route images or find three routes of the same caliber and start route images of their own?

[swiftus27]

Always maximize your route with as many flights as it takes to get to about 110-120% of demand

It prevents competition.  It makes your route image (RI) climb much faster.

[6Pack]

So you're saying I outta put the second plane on those routes as well?  How do I know when I have reached 110%-120% of the demand?

[6Pack]

And of course in the beginning where every penny counts, the first two Denver runs are canceled.  Once due to scheduling and once due to weather.  Hmph...

[swiftus27]

Sometimes the best thing to do is walk away from the computer for 6 hours.

[JumboShrimp]

So you're saying I outta put the second plane on those routes as well?  How do I know when I have reached 110%-120% of the demand?

Click on the demand icon (looks like a globe).  It shows how much you are supplying and total supply (as well as demand).  By 110%-120%, if you target Monday or Friday level of demand, you will be at 110 to 120% of demand.

[JumboShrimp]

And of course in the beginning where every penny counts, the first two Denver runs are canceled.  Once due to scheduling and once due to weather.  Hmph...

Scheduling - you have some control over.  Whatever extra time you are targetting on the turnaround, you should also have that extra time between landing and the next take-off, to reduce probability of delay and cancellation.

[raptorva]

I started off Jet Horizons in MT2 by leasing two 18yo Boeing 737-200's and crammed their schedules full with flights on two routes until they filled out demand and waited 2-3 game years for some cash reserves before ordering BAe-146's to replace them and to fly more domestic routes.

I've heard of many other players starting out blowing their whole start-up cash on one large long-haul jet and suffering losses until their RI rises and this strategy seems to work as there's no real way to loose money on long haul flights with no competition.
I find that strategy unrealistic though as a real-world startup couldn't just lease, say a 5yo 767 and put it on Trans-Atlantic/Trans-Pacific flights without having to pay even more money in getting licenses, regulations, etc.

I prefer to go the slow and steady approach and to always keep my money and cash flow in the green. I've never had a single day in MT2 where I've gone into the red.

[schro]

I find that strategy unrealistic though as a real-world startup couldn't just lease, say a 5yo 767 and put it on Trans-Atlantic/Trans-Pacific flights without having to pay even more money in getting licenses, regulations, etc.

If it wasn't for the fuel crisis back in 2007/2008 and subsequent recession, Oasis, MaxJet, SilverJet, Eos Airlines and L'Avion would probably still be in business. OpenSkies (a BA venture that purchased L'Avion), PrivatAir and V Australia are still rocking and rolling...

[Daemus]

We get three attempts at a game, correct?

As I understand it, you get 4 attempts (starting attempt + your 3 bankruptcies  for a total of 4).

I think I can find a few routes that have no competition and may work for me.  Take what knowledge I can from SoCal and build up right?

That is what I did, on my 3rd attempt at the moment. I chose bankruptcy twice, both with profitable companies, but I wanted to try new things and use the knowledge I had gained so far to try and improve my start. When a new game does come along, I want to start it knowing as much as possible and having experience from multiple types of start so I can choose the one that I think will give me the best edge. My main concern over starting a new game is that I found out about this game at a time when there weren't any newer worlds so I don't have start experience at the beginning of a game yet. I have read some posts talking about how the used aircraft market is brutal at the beginning of a game (and I thought it was bad enough already) so I have been trying to figure out the best strategy on paper where commonality may be alot tougher to achieve starting in week 1.

To all you guys in the big leagues, how do you do it?  Do you take what little cash you start with and buy a single larger aircraft like a 737 or something along those lines and expand from there, or do you start like a commuter airline with a number of 1900's and as you make money, evolve in to an express type airline, to a domestic airline then to an international airline? Gradually removing your smaller aircraft in favor of commonality of larger jetliners?

I am by no means in the big leagues... still starting out and in the same boat as you where I am just getting a grasp on basic concepts that I have to develop into fine-tuned strategies later so all I can share is my little experience so far. With my most recent company, I started it after using my previous company to research stats for the available planes and their pricing, both new and used.

I decided on 727-200Adv's and have been getting new ones as my cash-flow allows, watching for jumps in revenue that put me at a point I have enough cash on hand get a new one, in spite of the fact that I go into the red right after as I have expenses that can't be covered with my close to $0 in the bank. It works though because the current planes keep turning a profit, pushing me back into the black, with my recovery time from taking out a new lease becoming faster and faster as I increase fleet size.

Right now I have actually held off on ordering another 727-200Adv, despite having the cash for 2 more leases and plenty of routes with no competition I could stick them on. I have been looking at picking up a different plane type and need some time to research it. The used market on 727-200Adv's was pretty poor the last time I checked so I decided I would sit on my money for the moment while I decide what seems like the best path to take for future growth, unless I haven't figured things out when a 727-200Adv hits the used market that makes financial sense.

As far as the type of airline, I started running a route that was close to nominal range for the planes and pairing it with a shorter one that would make up the rest of the time I had in a day to fly the plane. With my last plane I switched it up after reading a post about the benefit of shorter routes from a revenue standpoint, having that plane run shorter routes, getting 4 daily instead of the 2 my other planes were running. Already, I am seeing that new plane with the highest revenue in my fleet despite having much lower route image. It is just one plane worth of data to go off of but I like what I see so far and will definitely play around more with routing choices.

Edit: Wanted to add that in addition to having the lowest route image, it also has the lowest LF% and is still generating higher revenue.

Hmm,  I ask a lot of questions, but believe me I do absorb the knowledge I get.  I love learning about new games, especially business simulation and especially those of aviation nature.

Agreed! I was ecstatic when I came across this game. I love business simulation games and since I was a kid I have had a huge fascination with airlines and airports.

How do I know when I have reached 110%-120% of the demand?

In the attached image, you see an example of a demand chart, showing the days, demands, and available seats. In this case, Monday has a demand of xxxx. Just take the demand and multiply it by the 110%-120% of the demand (multiply demand by 1.1 or 1.2, converted the % into decimals). For 120%, you get xxxx that should be supplied to the route. On the route pictured, there is a commercial passenger demand adding to the total, but you can hover your mouse over the blue and red bars to get the amounts for those to display in a tool-tip box that will appear.

[attachment expired]

[schro]

I decided on 727-200Adv's and have been getting new ones as my cash-flow allows, watching for jumps in revenue that put me at a point I have enough cash on hand get a new one, in spite of the fact that I go into the red right after as I have expenses that can't be covered with my close to $0 in the bank. It works though because the current planes keep turning a profit, pushing me back into the black, with my recovery time from taking out a new lease becoming faster and faster as I increase fleet size.

In a Jet Age era game, there's really not a better option than the 727-200Adv. It really doesn't become obsolete until the introduction of the Super 80s, A320 or 737 classics series (or the 757), none of which will appear in Jet Age #2. The non-Adv is also a good option for fleet commonality, and the 727-100 if you can't get your hands on enough 200 series planes, though, given their capacity its not economical to fly them as fuel goes up.

You'll get killed by fleet commonality charges far more than fuel charges in your current scenario. I suggest growing your fleet until you hit the 20-30 planes of the same type mark before even considering an additional type.

Though, I did forget, the margins in Jet Age are out of this world, so you'll probably do well no matter what you chose to do...

[Daemus]

Thanks for your response schro. I am in the beginner's game though (currently Feb-1997), not the Jet Age game. They burn through fuel and are getting older every day, having been out of production for quite a while with mid-late teens to early 20's being what you see on the used market. The "younger" ones are not so far from the the cost of picking up some similar capacity and more efficient new planes straight from the factory.

Don't get me wrong, they get the pax from A to B while turning a profit when buying the more affordable early 20's planes, I am just looking to get away from them and into some more economical younger planes when I feel I am financially able to. I may decide to just keep building up my 727-200Adv fleet but there are some much more efficient planes available for consideration. Right now I am really trying to decide if I can make a financially sound change with only 6 in my fleet or if I should get some more, like you suggested with the 20-30 planes, before moving to a different type. My real road block at the moment is that I have really no idea what the numbers will look like if I pick up a second plane type and wish I could see at least estimates before-hand.

I am also stuck at the moment on, if I do add a new plane type, whether I should run side-by-side fleets of the 727's and whatever the new plane is, or work on full replacement. Getting some actual estimates on the extra overhead would help alot with that decision. Ideally I want to work at carrying some lower pax low-medium haulers and some higher pax long-range haulers so I can get a feel for both types of operations while I am still learning in the beginner's game and don't mind making mistakes; in the interest of learning from my experiences so I know more when starting in another game.

If you have some advice based on me being in early 1997 and having read a more detailed explanation of what I am considering right now, please feel free to share as I feel a bit lost about what to do and would really like some advice.

[ucfknightryan]

The second fleet group you add doesn't hit you with very much of a penalty.  Just so you can acquire whatever aircraft you are considering relatively quickly and don't wind up sitting there with only a couple for months on end, it should be fine to add them while still growing the B727Adv fleet.  Unless fuel is currently on the way up I'd hold off on replacement for awhile in favor of growth.

Where are you based, and what sizes of aircraft were you thinking about operating?

For 727-200Adv replacements, the A320, B737-400, B737-800, and MD-90-30 would all work well, I think.  The 737-800 will probably not be available used in 1997 though, and may not be available new.

-Ryan

[Daemus]

Thank you for the info ucfknightryan. I am based at KDTW.

Growth is definitely something I am looking for and one thing that has me sitting back and not starting to order a second plane type, aside from my desire to do more research first, is that I think I am a bit too small on fleet size still to pick up another plane type. I may be financially forced to, however, simply because the used market for 727's is quite pricey and the majority of available 727's have the higher fuel consumption engine packages on them.

The current average price of JET fuel is 225 USD / 1000 kg - 28-Feb-1997. It spiked the end of the previous year @ $277 and has been falling since. I assume it is going to hit a bottom and start to climb again, but I am thankful right now for the drop as the fuel consumption of the 727's makes even a small increase or decrease quite noticeable.

I am looking for something in the 100-150 pax range as more of a regional short-run plane with most of the routes I have in mind being within 700 nm. The 727's can make the runs but I would like something a bit smaller on capacity for the airports that don't have a demand warranting the 162 capacity. The 45 min base turnaround (75 min for ~1% delay) is also something I am looking to reduce as it seems to add up when focusing routes instead of distance.

For the experience, I also wanted to pick up some high capacity long haul planes, looking at the possibility of international (beyond Canada) flights to major airports, but my primary focus right now is getting a strong short-mid range fleet running.

[ucfknightryan]

Hmm, there's nothing I can think of that covers that size range completely. 

If you'd like aircraft between 120 and 160 seats you could go with the A320 series or the 737-Classics (-300/400/500).  The NextGen 737s would also work, but you aren't going to see any of them used in 1997.  As a fallback option if it looks like there's no used availability of either of those and you don't want to wait for new deliveries, you could go with the MD-80 series.  Fuel consumption is quite a bit higher, but they should be cheaper and available, and I doubt fuel will ever get high enough in the Beginners World for them to get into trouble.  If you don't mind just having a 150 seat aircraft, the MD-90-30 is also a good choice.

For 100 seat aircraft you could go with the Fokker F100 or the Boeing 717-200 (though the 717 might not be available since launch dates vary from game world to game world).  The 717 is a bit faster and has more range, the F100 seats 5 more people and uses cheaper medium pilots instead of large pilots.  They cost about the same usually (though this can vary from world to world depending on demand) and use about the same amount of fuel. 

There are at least four other options that should be available in this size range, but I'm not fond of any of them for the late '90s.  DC-9s are getting old, burn a lot of fuel, and cost a lot to maintain, even though they are cheap to lease.  Likewise for BAC 1-11s.  BAe 146s and Avro RJs usually cost more to buy than the F100 and 717, are slower and have less range, though if you only plan to operate them out to 700nm they could work for you.

For larger longhaul aircraft, I'm not really familiar with Detroit's long haul demand so I don't really know what size-range.  I've only really operated long haul in the modern era once, and it's been awhile, so I'm not super familiar with all the aircraft.  If you just want to fly to Europe, and possibly the northern parts of South America, the 757 or A300 will get you to a large chunk of that.  If you've got enough destinations with the demand to support something bigger, the A330-200/300s are not bad options, and if you want to fly to the more distant parts of Asia they share commonality with the A340.  767s are also not bad, just don't fly the -200ER to anything close to it's maximum range, it doesn't carry enough passengers to pay the fuel bill if fuel gets expensive.  I've never operated the 747 outside of the early 70s so I can't speak to how well that works out, but I doubt DTW has enough places with that much demand anyways.  Can't offer any experience-based advice on the 777 either.  From what I've heard second-hand, don't touch the MD-11 with an 11' pole.  Maybe someone will poke their head in here and offer some advice on long haul based on more experience? 

Hope that was kind of what you were looking for.
-Ryan

[JumboShrimp]

Thank you for the info ucfknightryan. I am based at KDTW.

For the experience, I also wanted to pick up some high capacity long haul planes, looking at the possibility of international (beyond Canada) flights to major airports, but my primary focus right now is getting a strong short-mid range fleet running.

If Jet Age has similare demand distribution as ATB, Detroit has some demand to major airports in Far East, Australia, in Europe, a lot to AMS, LHR, and a couple more.  It mirrors the destinations NorthWest (now Delta fly).  But it is nowhere near the other US airports with a lot of international demand (LAX, JFK, MIA etc).  The best is to concentrate on domestic routes first.  Very long LH flights can be challenging to set up (because of the distance) and to achieve profitability.

[Daemus]

Thank you a bunch for the input ucfknightryan and JumboShrimp!

So far I have compiled a list of around 30 airports within 850 nm that have 100-180 pax demand available and I have plenty more to go through. I just took delivery of 2 more 727-200Adv's so that is 3 total now that I am running on shorter hauls (within 700 nm). The 3 combined, being the newest in my fleet with low RI, combined are making around 170% of what my more established 5 longer haul 727's are. I am very happy with the results so far. I definitely think I will look for a good shorter route plane type to get started with and add it to my current 727's. I am gonna work on grabbing up all the routes I can find that are the shorter hauls and try to get a snowball effect going with being able to purchase more and more planes per week. I have plenty of airports I can do shorter runs to and running 4 shorter hauls a day seems much more profitable than 2 longer ones with the 727's.

When I am struggling to find more short range routes I will look more into longer routes. With the shorter range demand I have found, I should have at least a couple dozen planes running in good profit, providing the larger cash chunks I will need for building a long-haul fleet. I was reading a bit about hubs and am tempted to copy the short haul strategy I am going to try, applying it to a hub. There are two airports that I looked into so far, both that have short routes to some of the same destinations on my list for DTW with similar demand, and both of them are quite reasonable in size and could support some long hauls. DTW has a few long hauls that have good demand. There are lots of long hauls with demand, but 150 pax and under so DTW doesn't look like it would support a long haul fleet of any real size (unless there is an extremely efficient low capacity long haul plane that I am not aware of). When I do look into getting a hub, I will have to weigh my options and either just expand the shorter haul fleet, or get into a large international demand airport. That will be a decision for later but this is assuming I can grow fast enough to get there before game end.

ucfknightryan, with the planes you mentioned, I will have to plug them into my spreadsheet to run the numbers on them and also check the market to see what I am looking at for purchasing options. I would like to get into a plane type that I can purchase new, and ideally start leasing used, so I have both sourcing options and am not getting stuck buying new for every plane... or forced to beg for mercy at the used market if my income keeps building and my plane orders start getting too high volume. Having the option to go to one or the other on any given day would be ideal so I think that will be a considerable factor in my decision.

I had been looking heavily at three plane options for the shorter runs to start adding to my 727's. The first was the Fokker 100 which you mentioned. They seem like an excellent plane but I need to look a bit more at the market for them. New ones have just under 2 months wait atm. The second one I was looking at is the A319-100. By my calculations, it is less efficient than the Fokker 100 and does have 4 months wait time but it would put me in the A318/A319/A320/A321 fleet group, giving me a little extra flex on both the new and used markets, and some options regarding range and capacity, via the other planes in the group, if I felt I needed to move in a little different direction at some point. The third is the MD-90-30 which seems to make sense on paper for what I would want (my calculations have been known to be horribly designed however) is closer to my 727's in capacity, coming in at 150. I would be looking at a 4 month wait time on MD-90-30's.

The Fokker 100 is the only one I have seen so far on the used market (not overly scarce but usually ~15% over listed value). The other two being recently brought into production. My guess is that it is unlikely to be seeing many of them on the used market before the end of the game unless someone buys a bunch and goes bankrupt in the near future.

Any information or input on the 3 aircraft I mentioned above would be greatly appreciated.

I had also looked at the 717, but alas, production start a little less than 3 months before game end.

[JumboShrimp]

I was reading a bit about hubs and am tempted to copy the short haul strategy I am going to try, applying it to a hub. There are two airports that I looked into so far

Resist the temptation.  The cost overhead of additional bases is very high.  DTW has a lot of domestic routes.  Just filter to US and you will see.  That should be your primary goal.  Then, LH out of DTW, then buy (new or your leased) aircraft.  2nd base should be the last thing you do.

As far as cost overhead, take a look at your personnel cost of everyone except pilots and flight attendants.  Multiply that number by ~35%.  That is going to be your overhead of 2nd base.  That's how high your HQ cost will jump by, just by opening 2nd base, before you even fly any aircraft from it.  Open your 2nd base only when you can safely afford that overhead.

[Daemus]

Resist the temptation.  The cost overhead of additional bases is very high.  DTW has a lot of domestic routes.  Just filter to US and you will see.  That should be your primary goal.  Then, LH out of DTW, then buy (new or your leased) aircraft.  2nd base should be the last thing you do.

As far as cost overhead, take a look at your personnel cost of everyone except pilots and flight attendants.  Multiply that number by ~35%.  That is going to be your overhead of 2nd base.  That's how high your HQ cost will jump by, just by opening 2nd base, before you even fly any aircraft from it.  Open your 2nd base only when you can safely afford that overhead.

Thanks for the number on the overhead to expect with a hub. I didn't have a good idea of what to expect before.

I wasn't planning to "jump the gun" with the addition of a hub, though I would prefer to get the experience of opening one before game end. I planned to, at minimum, max out my shorter route options at DTW and possibly get long haul started at DTW before adding another hub, with at least a majority of the planes I am running as purchases. If I was going to open the hub primarily for long haul rather than short, I would max out DTW long haul options first so I had a somewhat established long haul fleet before incurring the overhead of an additional hub that was acquired for the purpose of long haul.

If I missed something in your post or may not be considering something with the possibility of a hub addition, input on it would be very appreciated.