Due to a discovered bug I rewrote (many) parts of the passenger distribution script. The actual bug was in route image which was not modeled properly in all cases, and while I had the file open I improved and checked the system otherwise too, so it's largely rewritten from that part.
What you expect to see is:
- traffic using small (<50pax) planes should be profitable
- overall LF raises for everyone (with well established routes) as the route image bug was cleared
- if you start a new route to a destination with a big demand and no competition, you can expect almost full planes straight from the start
- sorts also the issues with route image not working properly even you have 100% route image, and issues with having big and small planes on the same route
- the overall result to all airlines should be positive, but later on some expenses may be tuned higher not to make it too easy .. but anyway, it should work now more or less like it was originally intended.
I've been working this for the last 2-3 days so there may be errors in the system. Let me know then...
GREAT :o
Wow.. I sense this could be a big change in theories sami..
Quoteif you start a new route to a destination with a big demand and no competition, you can expect almost full planes straight from the start
Hmmm this will help growth. No longer having to sweat out 6months of low mid 50s LF %.
Quotesorts also the issues with route image not working properly even you have 100% route image, and issues with having big and small planes on the same route
So.. by this, the theory of using smaller aircraft to attack larger aircraft wont hold any more? Example: 3x CRJ vs 1x 757 on a 200 daily pax route.
Currently, CRJs will have higher LF % vs a 757.. thus, making the 757 lose money flying the route. Route image 100 or not..
This could change the playing field...
Talentz
Thanks, Sami. That sounds awesome! :)
I just opened a new route from Boston to Dallas in Sim 1. No competition.
BOS to DFW: 44% load
DFW to BOS: 0% load ???
Route demand: ~900 passengers per day.
My capacity: ~200 passengers per day.
Thanks!
Quote from: JJP on January 17, 2009, 02:39:15 AM
BOS to DFW: 44% load
DFW to BOS: 0% load
Cannot see that. Route 019 is doing 46%/42% and route 021 was canceled yesterday.
(though was expecting a higher loadfactor for the route as it has so big demand ... but let's see .. it should raise over to 100% over 6 months, if not even faster)
--> some sleep now ..
Ok, thanks. I did not see the flight cancellation for weather.
So, I understand the load starting out that low, but shouldn't it raise very quickly? 'course, what's the defintion of quickly? Mine would be 1 or 2 months! ;D
Thanks!
Oh it worked sami. I have seen the first day's results...it works ;)
Night busy bee ;D
Nice one ive been waiting for this! Think im gonna restart my airline now since its 8 million in the reds its no use trying to keep it alive ...
Thank you Sami! Works perfect now.
This is great sami, very quick response fixing the problem. Thank you
WOAH! my load factors comapny wide have increased, 7% Y and 10% C! i had an ATR make 60,000 in profit one of the days!
Thanks Sami, we all appreciate your continued effort ;)
its so much better now.... my routes have much higher LF from now... Great fix...
Question: Anyone experience a decrease in C LF?
not sure if it's related but the demand on a couple of my routes dropped like a stone.
e.g.
SIN-DMK went from a health 60% in Y to 15% on around 26th april (there's some competition but still loads of demand)
Also SIN-MNL - went from 50 to 24%.
May just be a competitor pricing aggressively but was surprised at the slump...
Btw, does seat style have any affect of demand yet? These planes are HD.
Quote from: trickster69 on January 17, 2009, 04:48:14 AM
not sure if it's related but the demand on a couple of my routes dropped like a stone.
e.g.
SIN-DMK went from a health 60% in Y to 15% on around 26th april (there's some competition but still loads of demand)
Also SIN-MNL - went from 50 to 24%.
May just be a competitor pricing aggressively but was surprised at the slump...
Btw, does seat style have any affect of demand yet? These planes are HD.
I was just gonna ask anyone if their LF drop instead... well... mine certainly did... whatever tweak you did Sami almost always affects me in a negative way... am I playing the game wrongly or just coincidentally "taking advantage" of the said bug?
Most of my routes are fine - it's just some of the newer, short haul ones that seem to be affected.
It also doesn't appear to behave consistently - I have two brand new routes, no competition, similar demand and the same plane/config:
SIN-SZX - 70-80% across Y & C. vs...
SiN-CTU - 40% Y, 16% C.
Route image seems to play a part, but I have a couple of reasonably well established routes affected badly and some new ones that have big demand. I just can't identify what's making the difference.
same here
SIN-BKK Y class drop from 7X% to 3X%...
SIN-ICN Y/C Class drop from 6X% to 3X%
Sami care to explain the mechanism behind the new update so I can get my way around this issue?
Just to point out 2 routes that are affected badly and they both have 100 Route Image... Both of these are operated by an A313 and there's ample demand left. LF dropped from 80ish% to 50 ish%
ASR001/002 LIRF-EGLL vv flight departs at 0800h
ASR015/016 LIRF-LFPG vv flight departs at 1645h
Don't even let me begin with midnight flights...
Damn, this was quite a change.
Just opened a new route and got 95% LF the next day :o.
Nearly all of my routes has over 90% LF now, a jump from 50-60%.
Maybe you made it to easy for us ;).
Quote from: tofen on January 17, 2009, 09:27:59 AM
Damn, this was quite a change.
Just opened a new route and got 95% LF the next day :o.
Nearly all of my routes has over 90% LF now, a jump from 50-60%.
Maybe you made it to easy for us ;).
I think that it's because you operate a smaller sized fleet, in terms of pax per plane.
Quote from: jagalubnan on January 17, 2009, 09:34:01 AM
I think that it's because you operate a smaller sized fleet, in terms of pax per plane.
Nah, I wouldn't call an all B733 fleet small sized.
My F50/F.27 fleet in the other game seems to be doing good to after this to, but not the same insane increase.
Quote from: tofen on January 17, 2009, 09:39:12 AM
Nah, I wouldn't call an all B733 fleet small sized.
My F50/F.27 fleet in the other game seems to be doing good to after this to, but not the same insane increase.
I just assumed that you were talking about Public1. Sorry.
Well, when i went to sleep my ARN-CPH LF was 59%, when i woke up its 16%? I dont nderstand that, because i m flying with low rates.
Yep, me too
ALL of my routes are way down, but only in Y/C
PLEASE fix it, I'm desparate now, I was going good but I'm headed for the rocks now!
Rather than fix it, you must look at what's behind this first. A majority of players are doing better than before, so it must be something specific related to your airline/base/region/aircraft, etc. Maybe you don't have a high route image? Maybe your aircraft are old? Maybe there's a lot of competition?
I've tried to help out by looking at some of everyone's routes from a "public" point of view, so we should wait until Sami can examine them from the inside. :)
Well thanks for the update. I'm operating 2 atr 42 and it was hard to make money.
Since the update i'm having serious problems with my LF's on C and F class....
thanks for the update and the hard work...everybody is happy cauz the L/F have gone through the roof. But, on the other hand, a few routes have decreased dramatically without ANY explanation.
I had a route to Dusseldorf which was doing nicely at about 55-60% in its first month and now it's gone down to below 30%. I've closed it down after i observed it for about a week and nothing changed. Sami, it seems the fix has created some inexplicable changes...
Quote from: elitemedia on January 17, 2009, 10:07:52 AM
Since the update i'm having serious problems with my LF's on C and F class....
same here... :(
Guys, as sami said. You need well established routes to get high LF. Advertise your routes! ;D
I just open a route to Beijing in game 1
and the loading was 13% in Y 0 in C class........... >:(
Quote from: Unbornio on January 17, 2009, 10:50:27 AM
Guys, as sami said. You need well established routes to get high LF. Advertise your routes! ;D
My problem is it's already at 100...
this has to be related to something, all those who's load factor went down, why dont you give a full report of the flights that are affected listing the Time of flight, aircraft, aircraft condition and age, route image, ticket price, company value, delay and cancellation %. This way we might be able to spot a pattern like flights after 11pm are down or it may well be a bug like Sami says. Simply putting "my load factor has gone down" doesnt help very much
An update has been installed ...
Problem was in parts that it did distribute the paxes to airlines, but it there were paxes 'left over' (=wanting to travel but "didn't find a seat" in the first round of calculation), they were not ALL given a seat. In other words if you were the only airline or only 2-3 others flying, it was probably fine, but on routes with 10 airlines it had problems. And also in another parts that the route image wasn't still working properly for some routes ... (which needs still some tuning later on)
If you have any complaints, please say the name of the game you are in and the number of the routes in question.
Thank you, Sami.
It seems to be working very nicely for me now. My new Boston to Dallas route jumped to nearly 100% load factors in just 2 weeks of game time. Nice!
Quote from: sami on January 17, 2009, 11:17:58 AM
An update has been installed ...
Problem was in parts that it did distribute the paxes to airlines, but it there were paxes 'left over' (=wanting to travel but "didn't find a seat" in the first round of calculation), they were not ALL given a seat. In other words if you were the only airline or only 2-3 others flying, it was probably fine, but on routes with 10 airlines it had problems. And also in another parts that the route image wasn't still working properly for some routes ... (which needs still some tuning later on)
If you have any complaints, please say the name of the game you are in and the number of the routes in question.
Do we have *ahem* any kind of compensation... I was at around 2.2m in cash before it happenned and now it's at 1.5m... if it had indeed worked out fine for me I probably have around 3 - 4m (guesstimate) in my coffers
Quote from: JJP on January 17, 2009, 11:23:30 AM
It seems to be working very nicely for me now. My new Boston to Dallas route jumped to nearly 100% load factors in just 2 weeks of game time. Nice!
That's not really the
original intention actually, as there should be the effect of the new route opening and people "finding" the route slowly. But on routes with very high demand and no other available seats, they simply 'need' to fly it so that's why it's full so fast. Then on smaller routes you will see the increase of the route awareness better.
(as the game world starts and there is no existing markets/airlines, the start up is always a bit tricky..)
Sami,could you please take a look at SSS760,SSS761 in game1
thanks
Quote from: Unbornio on January 17, 2009, 10:50:27 AM
Guys, as sami said. You need well established routes to get high LF. Advertise your routes! ;D
My route image is at 100% :o
Huge Thanks Sami ! :)
Finally the demand model behaves as it should ! After one year of struggling my 48 seaters reach 90% Load Factor !!
Some of my routes dropped dramatically, BUT, they are over-offered routes with a lot of competition !!
Thanks Sami it's now working well for me at least ;)
Yes a lot better now :) But i still have one question:
ARN - SSH 0610-1235
SSH - ARN 1400-1825
Days: 1234567
When i fly to SSH LF is 90%, but back to ARN is only 35%. Why is the difference so big?
The route demand back seems to be some 300 pax different ..... Which is strange.
Maybe this is problem of advertisement ? If you don't have a wide range marketing people at the destination of your flight don't know about you, thus you have poor returning flight LF ?
I was going to say! I'm making 500k a week on four routes with two aircraft LOL
Seems to be working well for me now...demand is up again.
sorry to be a party pooper here but perhaps its now too easy? i am putting my prices up left right and centre and the load factors continue to rise, perhaps there can be further additions to fees for each flight.
Heres what i have in mind, catering fees for Business class (and economy class if in standard config). ancillary items like headphones blankets and pillows and all that rubbish, IFE installation fees on the config screen. This will help the start up airlines as they will not have to fork out for these fees if their aircraft are economy only. and help towards restricting the tremendous expansion of bigger airlines (Myself included)
Quote from: Dazwalsh on January 17, 2009, 03:36:23 PM
sorry to be a party pooper here but perhaps its now too easy? i am putting my prices up left right and centre and the load factors continue to rise, perhaps there can be further additions to fees for each flight.
Lucky you, wait untill some competitors will come to pump up onto your most profitable routes.... :P , i can assure you that i can not raise my prices like this on routes where i have to face competition... ;)
oh this has already happened :( but i like challenges
Yep like mentioned the expenses may need some re-tuning now.
Quote from: sami on January 17, 2009, 04:28:52 PM
Yep like mentioned the expenses may need some re-tuning now.
By the way please do something about general marketing cost to be more fixed than linear.
Quote from: Dazwalsh on January 17, 2009, 03:36:23 PM
sorry to be a party pooper here but perhaps its now too easy?
Think you're right - it's gone from one extreme to another! I think the concept of the first change was right - just needed tweaking to get the consistency. The second change seems to have given most of my routes, even with low route image, 80%+ L/F.
When discussing about difficulty, remember, that you all used to have a hard time to even make profit. Because of that, you all needed to tweak the routes to give the best profit possible. Now, with this new update which instantly hugely raised the LF's, it may feel very easy. But, remember, that if you had had it like this in the first place, you wouldn't have tweaked the routes so much, so it's possible that in next games it's not that easy anymore... ;)
AWESOME.. as usual Sami!
As for the game getting easier.. to all you other posters.. ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING? I've filed bankruptcy 5 times in two games no matter what strategy I was using.. couldn't turn a profit.. now my Airlines (Grand Masonic Airlines if you are curious) is ALMOST making a profit here in Dec of 1992.. ALMOST.. I welcome the LF change, maybe now I can finally have a company that is profitable... sheesh.. I love this game but until this change, I was wondering if I was ever going to have at least one successful company..
thanks again Sami for the changes.. it really helps!
Quote from: Dazwalsh on January 17, 2009, 03:36:23 PM
sorry to be a party pooper here but perhaps its now too easy? i am putting my prices up left right and centre and the load factors continue to rise, perhaps there can be further additions to fees for each flight.
Heres what i have in mind, catering fees for Business class (and economy class if in standard config). ancillary items like headphones blankets and pillows and all that rubbish, IFE installation fees on the config screen. This will help the start up airlines as they will not have to fork out for these fees if their aircraft are economy only. and help towards restricting the tremendous expansion of bigger airlines (Myself included)
Are those already established routes or you just started them? Any competitors on said routes? Small or large aircraft? Mind sharing?
Sami, are you tinkering with the pax load again? My LF on at least 50% of my routes have dropped from 93% to 0%. :o
Hello Sami,
I opened a new route (no competition) and immediately received ~85% load. After about 1 game day, it dipped back to ~50% and since has stayed at that level (even after lowering my price). Now, I understand that my route image is nearly non-existent, but why would the load factor have started so high and immediately dipped?
I had other new routes that I opened with no competition that stayed with relatively high load factors from the beginning (~75%). I wonder why this instance would be so different.
Thanks!
sorry for bringing back this thread ;D
I proposed a change to the demand model which is used to calculate load factors. Several factors should be taken into account, including city demand (already), frequencies offered (already), amenities (future, or **seating configuration <=MAJOR one, should have more effect**) offered, possible connecting passengers (to your own airline's flights), flight duration and departure/arrival times (already), and fares (already). Once daily frequencies are offered between two cities pairs increases, the demand will increase in an to a certain extent, where the additional bookings drops off for every flight added (modelled into the game, but currently only rises due to low fares).