I'm tossing in my coins for this feature request. I searched for the keyword Prestige and got nothing so I'm guessing no one used something like this (but probably similar) to what I'm about to suggest.
Anyways,
Aside Company Image, we should have another (Equally Important Factor). I suggest a Company Prestige Rating. This could and will affect Load Factors but unlike company image, you can't increase this with marketing. Prestige Rating will range from -10 to 10 (Starts at 0 Always) and will increase (Very Little and Over Time) as well as decrease according to the following:
- Passenger Comfort (Is your Airline High Class? Middle? Cheap?)
- Delay and Cancellation Frequency (Affects Prestige Rating Like Company Image but on a Smaller Scale)
- Are you Frequent on Routes or Scarce? (I'll Describe this Below)
- Alliance Rating (This Can Tie in as an Extra Alliance Feature)
- Fleet Age (New or Old Aircraft's)
- Are your prices fair?
Passenger Comfort: This can affect your Prestige in a positive or negative way for example:
Poor Comfort on Aircraft's = Small Decrease in Prestige (-0.1 Point)
Fair/Good Comfort = No Change in Prestige
Excellent Comfort = Small Increase in Prestige (+0.1 Point)
Delay and/or Cancellation Frequency: Like Company Image, you prestige rating can increase (on a small scale but over time) if your delays and cancellations are kept under the recommended levels. For example Keep delays under 15min and get a small increase over time. Keep it between 15-20min and nothing happens to your prestige. Go over 20min in delays and your prestige will decrease a bit. Same thing with cancellations; Keep it under 2% and get a small increase to your prestige, keep it between 2% and 4% and nothing happens; go over 4% and your prestige decreases a little.
Are you Frequent on Routes or Scarce: If you flood a route, that is not very prestige like and so your prestige rating will drop a bit. If your scarce, nothing happens to your prestige. If you find some middle ground, your prestige increases a bit.
Alliance Rating: This could encourage more players to join alliances and could be an extra alliance feature as well. (So Airlines are not Paying Alliance Fees for nothing as well) Anyways, if your in an alliance with a rating over (lets say) 10%. Your Prestige Rating gets a one time increase (Lets Say 10% Alliance Rating = +0.1 Point Increase). As the alliance rating improves, so does your airlines prestige. If you leave an alliance (Lets Say it had a rating of 80%) you would get a 0.9 point decrease (Like loosing Points from your Company Image, you loose an extra .1 point for leaving an alliance.) This could also be used to punish alliances for reckless behavior. For example, an alliance is starting a war and the administrator does not like it. All the airlines in that alliance could receive a prestige drop for childish behavior. (Just an Example!)
Fleet Age: I would say this would play a good factor in Prestige Rating. Is your fleet new? Is it old? Lets say if your Aircraft's are between 0yrs and 7yrs. You would receive a small increase in prestige rating for having a new fleet. If it is between 7yrs and 13yrs, nothing would happen to the prestige rating, and if it is 13yrs or older, you would receive a small decrease. Of course I'm only tossing in estimations on fleet ages, they don't have to be these exact numbers.
Finally,
Are your Prices Fair?: If you over charge on a route, you would receive a small prestige drop. If your in some middle ground, nothing would happen. And if your prices are cheap (but your services are not, for example good passenger comfort) you receive a small prestige increase.
Now think about mix and matching, if you have cheap prices but poor passenger comfort, you obviously don't get a drop or increase in prestige. But if you have cheap prices and excellent passenger comfort, you will get sort of like a double increase.
Any Ideas? Anyone want to drop there coins on the table and add more to this?
I like this idea. It needs a bit of tweaking but I like it :)
Quote from: Yb on October 30, 2009, 02:01:58 AM
I like this idea. It needs a bit of tweaking but I like it :)
Of course it needs tweaking, but this is the "raw" layout of it. Any other ideas?
This could definetly kill LCC in game.
I'm not quite sure what this will achieve. As I understand it most, if not all, of the factors you mention already affect load-factors directly. I'm not sure what benefit there is from producing another rating to do something that is already done.
Phil
Prestige Rating Represents the "Luxury" of you airline. The purpose of this request is that Load Factors are not based on just Route Image and Company Image but also one the luxury of your airline. So instead of just two factors (load factors are based on CI and RI) but three factors. Company Image can be increased by marketing, route image by just flying the route, Prestige, you have to work at it. This could help smaller airlines develop at a faster rate and possibly get the upper hand against some bigger airlines.
Quote from: Samo on October 30, 2009, 12:09:52 PM
This could definetly kill LCC in game.
Why? They offer cheap service at cheap price :)
I like the idea - needs some minor tweeking possibly ;)
Quote from: Yb on October 30, 2009, 05:09:11 PM
Why? They offer cheap service at cheap price :)
Exactly. And this idea would make it non profitable.
Quote from: Samo on October 30, 2009, 06:59:46 PM
Exactly. And this idea would make it non profitable.
Why would this idea affect profits? Cheap Service = -Prestige and Cheap Prices = +Prestige
They cancel out and you still have a natural flight. Why are you bagging on this idea? Do you do something with your airline that make it, well, un-prestige like? It took me an hour and a half to fully type and explain this idea out. And it indeed exists in real life. Compare Delta Airlines and Lufthansa. The prestige rating of Lufthansa does not even compare with Delta. Everyone knows that Lufthansa is better then Delta. (And a bit more expansive) but it is worth the extra price.
I like it ;D And I'd say it definitely exists in real life, another example would be Qantas compared with for example Virgin Blue, everyone knows that Qantas has better service etc so like Ali5541 just said it is worth the extra price thus it would make a good addition to the game
I'm sorry, I didn't see there is also price. But still, there are many factors about comfort and only one is price, this WOULD kill LCC.
I prefer my idea of two ratings instead of CI:
https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,14820.0.html
Quote from: Samo on October 31, 2009, 06:19:11 AM
I'm sorry, I didn't see there is also price. But still, there are many factors about comfort and only one is price, this WOULD kill LCC.
I prefer my idea of two ratings instead of CI:
https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,14820.0.html
I'm not sure if there is any way to change your mind of this idea. But this would not kill LCC. You can find this out because if you mix and match between them, you would see that LCC won't be killed. Here is another more detailed scenario:
You fly an aircraft with poor comfort and expensive prices. But the aircraft is new and you have little delays/cancellations. Your end result is neutral because of this:
Poor Comfort = -0.1 Prestige
Expensive Prices = -0.1 Prestige
New Fleet = +0.1 Prestige
Little Delays = +0.1 Prestige
all resulting in = 0
If you want to get even more detailed, lets say:
You fly this route on some middle ground = +0.1 Prestige
Alliance Rating is (30%) = +0.3 Prestige
Your overall Prestige is +0.4
Now Please Note that this is a VERY VERY VERY VERY Rough Scenario. It may not end up like this after tweaking. And note that Prestige Rating will apply to your OVERALL airline.
Come on! Any more ideas? What do you think Sami?
Quote from: ali5541 on October 30, 2009, 04:06:21 PM
Prestige Rating Represents the "Luxury" of you airline. The purpose of this request is that Load Factors are not based on just Route Image and Company Image but also one the luxury of your airline.
But load factors AREN'T just based on Route Image and Company Image. They are also based on passenger comfort, delay frequency, alliance rating, aircraft age etc. - in fact, (nearly) all the things you mention are already affecting load factors.
Phil
Quote from: Ffylip on November 01, 2009, 03:54:43 PM
But load factors AREN'T just based on Route Image and Company Image. They are also based on passenger comfort, delay frequency, alliance rating, aircraft age etc. - in fact, (nearly) all the things you mention are already affecting load factors.
Phil
yes, but those sub-categories you mentioned do it on a very small scale. The Prestige Rating is an overall rating that effects the load factors on a bigger scale.
No one wants to share there ideas about this?
So I guess I'll be pulling out the coffin for my idea? What do you think Sami? I really wanted your opinion!
be patient sami is busy - i do like your idea - i agree with you
well, this goes this idea down the drain.
Well, any new comments?
Quote from: Ffylip on October 30, 2009, 01:53:00 PM
I'm not quite sure what this will achieve. As I understand it most, if not all, of the factors you mention already affect load-factors directly. I'm not sure what benefit there is from producing another rating to do something that is already done.
Phil
I agree with this aspect. It also overlaps most of the factors in CI and load factors.
- Passenger Comfort - What happens when you operate different types of seating on the same aircraft? I frequently put nice seats in the front but stuff as many as possible in the back. The results are shown from the load factors and the ability to attract C or F-class pax comes from CI.
- Delay/Cancellation Frequency - you've answered your own question.
- Route Frequency - This is already modelled in route image. If you only fly a route once a week, your route image takes a long time to build up.
- Alliance Rating - If you're in an alliance you get improved loads and profits anyway.
- Fleet Age - This affects your loads and profits. Older aircraft cost a lot more to maintain and produce more cancellations and delays, which directly affect your CI
- Are your prices fair? - Again, this stems directly from CI and emerges as load factors. High CI = High prices = High Loads etc
I know it seems like I'm being super-negative about your post and I know you suggest a lot of positive things to add to the games :), but I just don't think this is necessary. As I could see you wanted people to respond, I read it all
very carefully and can see what you're suggesting, but its not distinct and seperate enough from CI. I can see that maybe CI should perhaps be drawn away a little from marketing, as marketing is very dominant when affecting CI, but I believe most of the aspects you have mention affect the loads significantly anyway.
I also think that with the eventual introduction of CEO scenarios, maybe the extra dimension you're suggesting may come from CEO Prestige. If you've run successful airlines then as well as money, there could be new CEO stats which show how successful a CEO you are etc.
Dave :)
Hey, at least you were honest.
Samo- it's very simple. two words: Southwest Airlines. They are THE biggest LCC in the WORLD and they have so much prestige because the are simply that; a LCC. They bring the joy back into flying and for a cheap price too. It's what everyone wants. That's exactly why big airports like DFW are trying to stop smaller, secondary airports from stealing passengers, which is what Dallas Love does. Southwest Airlines is based out of DAL (Dallas Love) and the bigger airlines that fly to DFW suffer from the fact that the economy provides no help for them to fight SWA, and so SWA keeps on growing. JetBlue is also another example. SWA and JBL constantly are at each other's throats trying to be the best LCC is the US. Both JBL and SWA are one of the most respected airlines in the US to date, never mind the ancient United, Continental, Pan Am, TWA, Delta, Northwest or American. Those two DOMINATE the USA BECAUSE of their high prestige. that straighten you?
Quote from: ICEcold on January 19, 2010, 09:29:01 PM
Samo- it's very simple. two words: Southwest Airlines. They are THE biggest LCC in the WORLD and they have so much prestige because the are simply that; a LCC. They bring the joy back into flying and for a cheap price too. It's what everyone wants. That's exactly why big airports like DFW are trying to stop smaller, secondary airports from stealing passengers, which is what Dallas Love does. Southwest Airlines is based out of DAL (Dallas Love) and the bigger airlines that fly to DFW suffer from the fact that the economy provides no help for them to fight SWA, and so SWA keeps on growing. JetBlue is also another example. SWA and JBL constantly are at each other's throats trying to be the best LCC is the US. Both JBL and SWA are one of the most respected airlines in the US to date, never mind the ancient United, Continental, Pan Am, TWA, Delta, Northwest or American. Those two DOMINATE the USA BECAUSE of their high prestige. that straighten you?
finally, someone sees the power of prestige. I couldn't have said it better myself.
Quote from: ali5541 on January 20, 2010, 04:53:11 PM
finally, someone sees the power of prestige. I couldn't have said it better myself.
That isn't the point of the thread or your idea.
I quite agree that airlines like Southwest, JetBlue, Easyjet and Ryanair etc have a high prestige (well, Prestige isn't perhaps the correct term - maybe unique appeal), but this is just modeled in the game (as I previously posted) as Company Image. You can have a CI of 100 in this game and take all the economy pax at whatever price (default or below) you like.
There is not enough differentiation between your idea and CI and RI.
Through fear of sounding too negative again, I believe that the core idea behind this is a good one and this is mirrored in Samo's suggestions too. There does somehow need to be a differentiation to allow the creation of low-cost carriers in the game. I think Sami's new idea (for later implementation) of population centres dictating the number of pax in an area could help this, as this will greatly benefit the use of secondary airports.
Dave :)
That is your opinion, however, I think that Prestige is important because it does exist in real life and has more meaning to it then having a company be well known. CI and Prestige may be similar, however, Prestige will have greater effect and would be much more difficult to increase/decrease. As long as you have some form of advertising going, CI will mostly always increase. You could have a perfect 100 CI but have a bad prestige. Like Delta airlines, there very well known (in America) but there prestige is near 0. It just adds more factor and hard work in the game that CI just can't cut it.
Edit:
Additionally, prestige can help smaller airlines get the upper hand on gigantic airliners that need to work very hard to maintain prestige. Smaller airlines will virtually have to do less work than larger airlines because this have less planes, destinations, and delays/cancelations to worry about. New airlines have a difficult time to increase CI because of all other costs (especially starting late in a game), prestige can cut some of the annoyances when starting late in a game world.