No more new planes on the used market?

[Jackson]

2 RL years ago, I was able to find brand new B737s, A320s B777s B764s and and every other popular a/c in the used market within atleast 1 to 2 years after the launch airline took it's first delivery. They did tend to be slightly more expensive but ofcourse that was to be expected as it helps the "buying" airline avoid long queues and the "seller" makes a profit. There wouldn't be alot but I was able to find anywhere between 5 to 10 brand these new popular aircrafts in the used market.

Somewhere in the last 2 years, this culture has changed. The large and mega airlines still flood the New Market with orders, clogging up the production lines as before but they no longer lease and sell those planes straight away anymore. This is my 4th game since the begining of November. Both MT and JA. Neither of those games did I find any new aircraft in the used market yet there were quite a considerable number in storage.

Are large and mega airlines trying to starve others of growth to remain dominant? I even noticed that these 200+ a/c airlines would have old, last generation airframes STILL on order (like anywhere between 10 to 100) and a fresh order of new gen a/c of the same or different type (like 60 to 400, therefor constantly upgrading one fleet type. One airline? And there are over 30 MEGA airlines in each game world. What the hell is going on? What's changed? Am I missing something here or is this a strategy amongst these mega airlines?

I would love to aquire B737s or A320s too you know. Why can't I get my hands on some A330s or B777s? Guys, if you're going to order enough planes that can be used as a belt for the planet, the least you could do is order 5% more to lease and sell to the rest of us seeing as it's just you guys who wait purposely as soon as a new model becomes available.  I'm not hating on successful CEOs. I just want to be able to lease and buy aircrafts I wish to stick with for 10 to 20 years. At the moment, if I order planes that will take 10 bloody years to come, it's no longer BLOODY EFFICIENT. Further helping these  gigantic airlines to dominate the entire game.

And lastly. Aren't those massive AI companies that order planes specifically to lease meant to do exactly that? Why am I not seeing enough or any new planes in the used market being leased from the AI atleast? Or are they also at a disadvantage? Let me know guys. How do I get my hands on the planes I want?

[Infinity]

Can only speak for myself, but I need every plane I can get for myself and can't really think about supplying others.

[JumboShrimp]

It's an issue of supply and demand.  There is a certain passenger demand in the game world, and the game world starts with limited number of aircraft, that is able to serve only fraction of the passenger demand.

It takes 10+ years for the game world, until some balance between passenger demand and capacity supply is reached (as the new aircraft is delivered).  MT9 is still not fully there yet.

Anyway, once this balance is reached, you will see all kind of aircraft on the market....  Between now and then, all you can do is hope to get lucky on the Used Market, or pay attention to the production lines, an early production slots may open up if there is a bankruptcy...

[Jackson]

Can only speak for myself, but I need every plane I can get for myself and can't really think about supplying others.

Fair enough. In that case, I would suggest that mega airlines like yours target either the same aircraft type from the used market or another fleet type. Ofcourse this wouldn't happen because in business, the aim is to make as much paper as one can whilst reducing costs as much as possible but something needs to be do e so CEOs such as yourself are not impeded while owners of small to large airlines can go back to being able to buy and lease brand new planes.

[JumboShrimp]

I made a suggestion to expand the production line (to produce more aircraft per month beyond what the current caps that the system has) when there is a backlog that is very long, years and years of production sold out.  I am not sure if the suggestion will be implemented.

[Jackson]

It's an issue of supply and demand.  There is a certain passenger demand in the game world, and the game world starts with limited number of aircraft, that is able to serve only fraction of the passenger demand.

It takes 10+ years for the game world, until some balance between passenger demand and capacity supply is reached (as the new aircraft is delivered).  MT9 is still not fully there yet.

Anyway, once this balance is reached, you will see all kind of aircraft on the market....  Between now and then, all you can do is hope to get lucky on the Used Market, or pay attention to the production lines, an early production slots may open up if there is a bankruptcy...

Totally get you in regards to the balance and meeting pax demands wherever you can. I understand that factor but should it affect others to the point they are forced to make undesired strategic choices that may cost them their airline and credits? There should be a solution to still allow mega airlines based In major hubs to expand as they like whilst removing the current penalty for smaller airlines that simply want a newer, more efficient fleet to avoid being trapped by fuel increase and other rising costs.

I learn from you well established players all the time Jumbo, but it also tends to be the same faces in the same or similar locations who can battle for and dominate a major hub. These are the same people who shut down the new market so they will not be affected. Maybe a solution that cancels out the penalty of others having to wait for the "balance" to kick in after the fat boys get everything they want. This balance I'm assume comes around 2005 when most planes can deal with the extortionate fuel prices. That's a long time to wait.

I think if mega airlines want to meet every demand possible then they should also look to the used market and alternative brand new a/c types. It's lob sided right now and worse than before and something has to give to keep both parties happy.

But. Until Sami does something about it, it isn't impossible for someone like me to work around it. Just near impossible due to my everyday life style. I can't anticipate when a new model of choice will be launched to get my orders in and I also have to buy other planes to make up for MY OWN demand (which is a huge risk in itself if fuel spikes as I will be stuck with these planes for a while). As soon as cargo is implemented that would help a great deal but it's ridiculously hard right now to grab some decent aircrafts.

[Jackson]

I made a suggestion to expand the production line (to produce more aircraft per month beyond what the current caps that the system has) when there is a backlog that is very long, years and years of production sold out.  I am not sure if the suggestion will be implemented.

I really hope it is. This community comes up with some brilliant ideas. Just don't know if Sami has the man power to get them into the game and fit in with other game programming or whatever you call it.

[JumboShrimp]

If you start the game world on day 1, when it opens, the challenge is to achieve a growth and profitability very quickly, for the reason of being able to place as many orders for new aircraft as possible.  Because early on, you know that the Used Market will be empty in about first 1-2 years of the game world, and will remain empty for following 5-8 years.

So a big part of the success is to have a plenty of new aircraft arriving during those 5-8 years.  5-8 years, it is very challenging to start an airline.  It can be done.

For example in the MT world, some production line for aircraft that is still decent (737 classic, MD-90), these production lines are still fairly accessible for new players.  LH aircraft is a lot more challenging.  767 and A330 lines are hopelessly sold out for years and years.  The only alternatives are DC-10, MD-11 and 744.  Those alternative fleet groups have a good availability.  I did fly DC-10 and I still fly 744, since even bigger airlines can't get enough of the 767, A330/340, 777 to meet demand from their airports.

So the thing you are seeking - deliveries of the most popular aircraft - this is something that was fought after for years and years of the game world.  It is a reward of being successful early on, it is not exactly an entitlement.

[Jackson]

Yeah. Harsh realities lol. But it's true what you say. The heavies are the ones out of reach. The good ones I mean. I sometimes wonder how these GWs would pan out if non of us knew a thing about these planes before hand and while playing. Im sure we would see a better balance of different planes being utilized.

B747 is too large for me. Some routes can use them, but I don't have many.

DC10/L1011 love these birds but the extra speed doesn't make up for the extra engine/fuel.

MD11s lack the range I need to have one type.

B767s B777ERs A343/6 are my only options. Will monitor and wait for that opportunity.

Thanks for the insight.

[xyeahtony]

I made a suggestion to expand the production line (to produce more aircraft per month beyond what the current caps that the system has) when there is a backlog that is very long, years and years of production sold out.  I am not sure if the suggestion will be implemented.

this would be a good idea. Although i feel like people just buy planes to sell and not use them for themselves, inflating the production lines to highly unrealistic levels.

My ideas would be caps on selling new aircraft or gradual increases in price of aircraft as more orders are placed. Expanding the production line beyond the current caps would be nice too.