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Mentoring feedback/ideas/important stuff not viewable

Started by Sanabas, July 27, 2012, 11:05:05 PM


I'll post some more detailed ideas later today, but my first impressions are that there are some really important things missing.

New aircraft pages - I can look at the production lists, and I can use compare aircraft to check capacity/range/etc. So that's not too bad. But being unable to see prices is a bit of an issue, as is not knowing when a new model is going to be introduced. The 736 & 739 are both available to order in BW, but none are in service yet. So I don't think they've actually been certified yet. When are they due to be certified? I have no idea, unless I want to mouseover each order until the first one appears.

Used Market - This is even more important. I can infer availability based on the global stats. But I have no idea of plane age, plane price, other than simply guesswork based on my knowledge from other gameworlds, or looking at my mentored airlines existing leases.

Available loans - An airline has no existing loans, a few million cash, and a B rating. I think they can get a loan, but how much? 2 million or 20 million? Using loans to fund growth is pretty fundamental, but I can't give advice if I don't know what they have available.

The open route page - This is the most important of all IMO. Not the ability to actually open routes, but the ability to move to the route opening page, and set them up without actually clicking 'open route'. There is really important info only available on this page.
          -Slot costs. Do I recommend to my mentee that it's safe to go right down to near 0 cash grabbing used planes, because slots will only cost ~50k per plane to schedule? Or do I recommend that they don't drop below 3 million, because each plane costs $1 million? I can't tell, because I can't see slot costs, and my guesswork could easily be out by a factor of 5.
         -Delay chance for turn times. Depending on the plane, I can do this almost from memory. Compare aircraft gives me the minimum. 25 minute minimum, 45 minutes for 1%, 40 minutes is 2.8%. 40 minute minimum, 60 minutes 8%, 65 1.4, 70 for 1%. 80 minute minimum, 130 1.4, 135 1%. But a tiny plane with a 20 minute default? A 55 or 60 minute default? No idea. A 70 minute default like the a300? I *think* it's 115 for 1%. Of course, I can check these by going to my own MT airline, and trying to create routes with the same plane. But that doesn't work if I don't have an active airline, or if I only have a JA airline, and so can't look at more modern planes. Since short turnarounds at HQ looks like the #1 mistake new players make, this is important.
         -Flight time. This one's huge. Again, poor, inefficient scheduling is the #1 thing that hurts new players based on what I've seen so far, even more so than fleet commonality. I'd love to be able to give them a step-by-step walkthrough of how I'd create a schedule with their airline, using 1% turn times at each end, with minimal gaps, and using redeyes where possible rather than dead of night flights. I'd love to show them the way I do my basic planning, generating a list of round-trip times for a particular plane, which lets me pick & choose from the list later for maximum efficiency. For more advanced people, I'd like to walk them through creating their first 7 day schedule, again with minimal gaps. I'd like to show them how to find a good tech stop, and decide which out of 2 or 3 is best, or how to use a techstop with a curfew. To me, those are the skills that really make a big difference in someone's ability to build a profitable airline. But I can't do that, because I can't see flight times. For this one, I can't even fudge it based on my own airline, because I won't necessarily have routes of the same length, with the same timezone changes, to the same sized airports with similar taxi times.

The ability to see these things, if it could be done without letting the mentor actually take out loans, buy planes, create routes, would make a big big difference. If it could only be done by allowing full access, then there's a trust issue, as it becomes easy for a mentor to vandalise, or even accidentally stuff up, an airline. There are also the technical issues with mentoring in a gameworld someone plays in, or mentoring more than 1 airline. I think those need to be doable, as it's highly likely all active mentors might already be playing MT, for instance. Plus the fact that at least two BW requests went unanswered for over 3 months. I have some potential ideas for that, will post later today.


I agree with the turnaround times. Qantas turns their 767s within 60 minutes max 70, rarely delayed.

If we hire more ground staff then whats needed, would this affect the turnaround times???


No, it won't. But that's not the issue, the issue is a mentor can't tell what the 1% time actually is unless they already have it memorised, or switch to a different gameworld to search for it.

If you want to talk about what Qantas can do, and how things ingame should be different, that's an entirely different topic, and you should read,41687.0.html and then post in,753.0.html about it.


Bump ~

I agree with most points here.

I'd really like the ability to see the used aircraft market... Can't recommend an aircraft or fleet type if I dont know whats actually on the market.



When a mentoring request is made, an automated pm gets sent to the active mentors currently available in that world. Would be good to have an automated pm sent when the mentoring ends, or when an airline with an open request/active mentor bks. It'd be sent to the operator of the mentored airline, with some basic feedback questions. How long they've waited (this seems like an issue, I suspect there are only a handful of active mentors at best, and if they're active enough to put time into mentoring, good odds they're also playing in multiple worlds), who their mentor was, was the advice helpful, what could be better, etc, etc.

I think I've found something that wasn't meant to be available. But I'd prefer it stay in, rather than get taken out. A lot of the stuff I mentioned above (route planning, used market, new planes, alliances, etc) I assume aren't available to prevent mentors either taking over, or making changes rather than just observing and offering advice, or even being malicious. Price management also falls in that bracket. However, it is possible to go to a route info screen, and click on 'manage all prices of xxx-yyy', and then change things. It's good to see, because I can click 'reset to default' and not save the changes, and thus see how far the tickets are from default. Would be very easy to make significant changes to price on a few routes, and seriously impact the airline's profits.

But as I said, I'd rather that sort of info stayed as viewable. Seems like it's currently very easy to be on the mentor list, so it makes sense to put those restrictions in place. But seems like there aren't many actually mentoring. I think it might work better if it was harder to be an active mentor, so mentors could be trusted with more access to some of the currently restricted stuff, and so could offer better advice, or demonstrate something by giving a good schedule to one plane, without damaging someone's airline/running it for them. A subforum would be good, so that mentors actually knew who else was active, and could talk to each other about what help they were offering, how they were presenting stuff, etc. Possibly when someone opens a request, that would generate a thread in the forum, and they could see just that thread, and use it for questions. Would let mentors use screenies too then, as you can't put those in pms. Some way to be a mentor in a world you're playing in, or mentor multiple airlines, would be really good if there's going to be a backlog build up, and new players waiting multiple weeks to have a mentoring request answered. I know there's technical issues with seeing multiple airlines on a single login. Don't know how feasible it would be, but something like actually having some mentor-specific logins may work. So I could log in as sanabas and run my own airline in MT, then I could log in as mentor1 to see one airline, and mentor2 to see another airline, and someone else could be doing the same with mentor3 & mentor4. Would also allow 2 different mentors to look at the same airline if needed. Would clearly be open to abuse, for example my airline could apply for mentoring, and my friend the other mentor could use a mentor login to grab me planes while I sleep. But that sort of thing would be blatantly obvious with any checking, and people would need to be well trusted before getting to be mentors. So *shouldn't* be an issue.

Just some random thoughts. I think the mentoring is a great idea. I don't think it's working properly yet, especially the waiting times people are currently dealing with.


Yeah, I was surprised at answered request vs request made. I am almost always full on mentoring airlines. Seems like not alot of mentors are active.

I agree with a survey of sorts. We as mentors need proper feedback to better our self as mentors. Also, it keeps a sort of checks and balances system in place to help prevent malicious examples as stated in Sanabas' above post. This help's the very important communication piece which leads me too...

Think what Sanabas was getting at is better communication. Both with the survey and a mentor sub-forum. We need to be able to communicate with our mentoree and with each other so that were all on the same page per say. A PM sometimes, is not the best tool.


(PS: Fun debate that wasted 15min of my time, typing this post: Is it Mentoree or Mentee?   ;)


Manatee. And I say that only because it gives me an excuse to post this picture of a BW airline crashing & burning:


I just picked up my first request after a bit of a break. The airline is profitable week to week, but in deep trouble due to previous problems. They have some loans, they own some planes. If all the planes are borrowed against, it may be hopeless. If any of the planes are not used as loan securities, then trying to sell one would just about fix the cash issue.

However, I can't see the details of whether loans are secured (or their margin, etc) or not. Only the amount, and the weekly payment. I can't see the box to terminate/extend leases, or sell planes, and that is the box that mentions whether a plane is used as security.

Therefore I can't tell if a plane is available to sell, or not. And it's fairly important in this case.


More feedback on mentoring please.

Useful? Has it been used much? Can you actually get a mentor..etc.


I've mentored quite a few airlines, I think it's been helpful to some. And probably not helpful to others. Some people ask intelligent questions and try to apply the responses, some people ask pointless questions, or want yes/no answers about whether something will make them money/avoid BK/help their airline, etc. Some people ask questions and just ignore the answers.

The last couple of BWs both built up big backlogs, there were people waiting well over a month with an unanswered request.

As a mentor, the lack of info available is still a problem. Can't see new aircraft prices or specs, only production lists. Can't see used market at all. Can't see route planning to know what turn times, slot costs, flight times are. Can't see whether loans are secured, nor what loans are available. Since the two things that kill off badly run airlines are terrible plane choice and worse scheduling/route selection, being able to see available plane options and scheduling options would help a lot.


i think it is a good resource to have someone more experience give helpful points. i was given better explanation on what i was doing wrong so i know not to repeat the mistakes in future scenarios.


sami, will there be a mentoring (private) suggested above?


Ive just read this topic, and strongly agree with any of the points made. I tried to mentor a few players earlier, but kinda gave up because without fuller knowledge of the world and market, and without the ability to actually make significant changes I always felt unable to help very much.

Mentors should be given more trust and get to see more information about the gameworld atleast, if not being able to directly open routes and buy/lease planes to explain end help newer players.