The Southwest Effect

[Frogiton]

I have a few questions about this game based off of the real world airline SWA.
1. One of SWA's biggest claim to fame is the "20-minute turnaround", this is 20 minutes less than the minimum of all 737's in this game, and yet SWA has one of the lowest average delay times. Yet 737's in this sim need 70 minutes to have less than a 1% delay chance... 3.5 times SWA's turnaround times.

2. A minor thing, SWA has three types of 737's... the 300, 500, and 700. Yet this is all characterized as one type of fleet and SWA needs no different pilot training or manuals and stuff for all three types. Yet in this sim, the 300/500 are characterized as a completely different fleet than the 700's. Might I note that the A330s and A340s in this sim are part of the same category, even though the 340 is a COMPLETELY different plane.

3. The biggest thing about SWA, is the actual Southwest Effect. For all unfamiliar, this is SWA's strategy to use their low fares to create a whole new market, allowing them to fly much more routes because their low costs have allowed people who usually wouldn't fly... to fly, thus creating a new demand. Although in the sim, demand is static.

Although 3, it seems, would be basically impossible to change in AWS. 1 and 2 seem like they could be changed fairly simply to more match real life.
Just giving my 2 cents   .

[NorgeFly]

I agree with number 1, turnarounds could be shorter in the game without a punctuality penalty.

I don't agree with number 2 though; the A330 and A340 are in fact very similar and in the real World an A330 pilot can fly an A340 on the same licence and vice versa. The A330 and A340 are basically the same aircraft, with different engines and wings. The flight deck/controls and the way they fly are much the same.

The 737-300/400/500 however is different to the 737-600/700/800. Although they look the same and share a fuselage etc. they have completely different flight decks/controls. I believe that SWA specifically ordered 737-700's with an "old fashioned" 737-300/400/500 flight deck so that pilots could fly all aircraft in the fleet. I have never heard of any other airline doing this and I doubt Boeing would do it for other airlines unless they placed a massive order like SWA did.

There are other examples like the Dash 8-300 which has no commonality with the Dash 8-400 and also the Saab 340 has no commonality with the Saab 2000.

Number 3 I agree would be a nice addition but as you said yourself I doubt very much it's possible.

[Frogiton]

The 737-300/400/500 however is different to the 737-600/700/800. Although they look the same and share a fuselage etc. they have completely different flight decks/controls. I believe that SWA specifically ordered 737-700's with an "old fashioned" 737-300/400/500 flight deck so that pilots could fly all aircraft in the fleet. I have never heard of any other airline doing this and I doubt Boeing would do it for other airlines unless they placed a massive order like SWA did.

Actually it's vice versa, they are retrofitting the Classics with new avionics. But the same pilots can fly all three styles.

[Sigma]

I have a few questions about this game based off of the real world airline SWA.
1. One of SWA's biggest claim to fame is the "20-minute turnaround", this is 20 minutes less than the minimum of all 737's in this game, and yet SWA has one of the lowest average delay times. Yet 737's in this sim need 70 minutes to have less than a 1% delay chance... 3.5 times SWA's turnaround times.

As someone who flies several times a week, including SWA dozens of times a year all over the country, I can tell you that, despite whatever they may claim, they never turn a plane in anywhere remotely close to "20 minutes".  They are indeed much faster than anyone else, but nowhere close to their claim.  The closest they ever get to that is when they do real quick stops at small airports enroute -- like when you land at Lubbock or San Antonio while enroute to Dallas.  The turnaround times are short simply due to the relative few passengers that are deplaning/enplaning.  

It's a nice claim, and it emphasizes their difference compared to everyone else, but it is not literally true.  They've been claiming that for a few decades now.  And back when the majority of their flights departed Dallas and all were required by law to stop within the State of Texas before continuing on to outlying locations, it was common to stop for just 5-10 minutes, which helped draw that average down so it was perhaps near 20-minutes "on average".  As the Wright Amendment has been somewhat relaxed and a lesser percentage of their flights traverse through Dallas, this is nowhere near true any longer.

When we get the ability to stop off and drop off a small portion of the plane and pick up a few passengers somewhere along the way, perhaps then Sami will allow us to create a shorter turnaround.  But for now it works to reproduce about 90% of commercial operations out there.

2. A minor thing, SWA has three types of 737's... the 300, 500, and 700. Yet this is all characterized as one type of fleet and SWA needs no different pilot training or manuals and stuff for all three types. Yet in this sim, the 300/500 are characterized as a completely different fleet than the 700's. Might I note that the A330s and A340s in this sim are part of the same category, even though the 340 is a COMPLETELY different plane.

You're a bit backwards here.

The 733/5/7 are not "one fleet", they are different generations of the same exact plane, in much the same way that a '64/'80/'05 Ford Mustang might all be "Mustangs" but that's about where the similarities end.  The wings are different, the engines are different, the cockpits are completely different, there's one heck of a lot less parts, and very few parts are interchangeable with the old "Classics".  And there are different manuals for the different types, and a pilot must receive new training (not a new type-rating, no, but training) to fly the new -700s -- all you've got to do is look at one of the newer cockpits to see that clearly there's a fair bit of training involved in learning to fly the thing over the old one.  It's like the difference between a Ford Trimotor and an F-15.

The 330/340 are virtually identical planes, the only appreciable difference being 2 more engines.  The fuse is identical, the cockpits are identical, everything's the same except 2 more engines.

Commonality in AWS has far more to do with maintenance and the subsequent training of your maintenance personnel and the parts needed to maintain those aircraft than it does with pilot training anyway.

3. The biggest thing about SWA, is the actual Southwest Effect. For all unfamiliar, this is SWA's strategy to use their low fares to create a whole new market, allowing them to fly much more routes because their low costs have allowed people who usually wouldn't fly... to fly, thus creating a new demand. Although in the sim, demand is static.

Although 3, it seems, would be basically impossible to change in AWS. 1 and 2 seem like they could be changed fairly simply to more match real life.
Just giving my 2 cents   .

AWS does this now.

Demand is not static.  You can achieve significantly higher than the displayed demand by having significantly lower pricing and a high consumer knowledlge of your airline.  Additionally, the lower the average pricing is on a route, the faster demand for that route grows year-over-year.

[[ATA] APB Airlines]

i can tell you it is hard to turn a 50 seater (crj 200) in 20 mins

[Tiberius]

Well I can tell you from experience that SWA does indeed turn planes in less than the minimums in the game.  25 minute turns are not unheard of, and I dare say happen fairly often, and that isn't because the flight is booked to 20 people or running late and trying to make up time.  There are indeed scheduled turns for full flights to certain places that are 25 minutes...I would say that I've seen those planes go out on time more often than not.  Just my two cents from having witnessed it.

[Sigma]

Well I can tell you from experience that SWA does indeed turn planes in less than the minimums in the game.  25 minute turns are not unheard of, and I dare say happen fairly often, and that isn't because the flight is booked to 20 people or running late and trying to make up time.  There are indeed scheduled turns for full flights to certain places that are 25 minutes...I would say that I've seen those planes go out on time more often than not.  Just my two cents from having witnessed it.

You're right, it happens, and I shouldn't have said it "never" happens since I even said in my own post that it does in certain instances.  But it is absolutely not their "average" and it is by far the exception, not the norm.  I couldn't even tell you the last time I flew with them when the boarding time was anything less than the standard 30-minutes prior to takeoff -- and that's not even counting the deplaning time.  The vast majority of the time, their time from hitting the gate to departing the gate is more like 45-50 minutes.

One thing that also helps them a great deal -- they give themselves big buffers in their flight times and, as a result, often arrive early.  I'd estimate somewhere north of 80% of the time I arrive at least 10 minutes earlier than scheduled on an 80min flight and have arrived as much as 25 minutes early on 140min flights.  When you do that as often as they do, you can schedule yourself a really tight 30-minute turn because you know that more often than not you'll arrive early and give yourself more time.

[Frogiton]

It's still a good portion quicker than 70 minutes.

[GDK]

In fact many airline are able to get their birds into the air fstr than the minimum turn around in AWS. AirAsia flyig from Kuala Lumpur to Sibu with A320-200 with nearly 200 passengers and the turn around at WMKK is just around 30 minutes. Make it an average of 40 minutes, still less than the minimum here, I guess....

[swiftus27]

I'm still trying to get past the claim that the A330 and A340 are "COMPLETELY DIFFERENT" planes. 

[Dave4468]

I'm still trying to get past the claim that the A330 and A340 are "COMPLETELY DIFFERENT" planes. 

They are entirely. If you had an A330 and an A340 in front of you they would be two different planes. 

Just because they share pretty much every part of their design...

[GDK]

Get the information from Airbus and you'll know those 2 brothers are twins. One of them was born slightly earlier and the other born slightly larger and with 2 additional powerplant. They were born in the same assembly line, with the same fuselage, wing and avionics... The 340 with longer fuselage and stronger wing was designed after they found that the wing of the 330 can't support the load distribution of the 4 engines safely.

[Sami]

For the turnarounds, there has been a lot of talk about them in the past, do a forum search. But basic plan is to modify it so that turn from 30min domestic sector is not the same as after 4 hour intl flight, since the amount of cleaning and stuff is completely different. But it won't go down to 20 mins since that's not very realistic or doable on regular basis at least in reality for that size jets (since the scheduled times for turnarounds always assume a full plane).

And A330 & A340 are identical really, apart from engine choices and minor details. A320 and 330/340 are pretty close too technically, especially for the crew.  But that all was covered already.

[GDK]

For the turnarounds, there has been a lot of talk about them in the past, do a forum search. But basic plan is to modify it so that turn from 30min domestic sector is not the same as after 4 hour intl flight,

Very nice. That's how things happen in real. So will this be in the coming new game?