Economy Plus

[meiru]

Little question about the image (company image as well as route image) ... I like the idea of an "Economy Plus" class... so, that's a little bit bether than Economy, but way behind Business... I tryed to simulate this... since it's not possible to use two different Economy seats at the same time with two different Economy prices (could be interesting too, to allow airlines to create their own classes... wouldn't make the engine much more complex)... so, I tryed to simulate this using a high density Business class and a standard Economy class... and I set the prices to ... something like 140 for Y and 160 for C instead of 310 for C ... the question now is, if this strategy can have a negative effect on my image or not... if yes, I'd bether stop that...

[Sami]

The demand model of Y/C/F classes is rather simple in that sense. If you have a demand estimation of let's say 30 C class pax a day, you won't see much transition from Y/F classes to C class. It IS modeled, but you shouldn't expect to get more than 50-60C class pax if the demand estimate is 30C..  (just to give an idea how it works)

[meiru]

ok... and... I saw, that the quality goes up, if you have less than the maximum of seats in a class... question... is this fine granular modeled, so, 100 seats is bether than 110, but it's named "good" for both, even if one is let's say 12 and the other one 12.4 ? ... does this still have an effect? ... it should, i'd say... but... who knows if it's worth letting one row away from the plane...

[meiru]

if it's really modeled like this (so, Y passengers want to fly Y and won't change to C, even if C is at the same price as Y), then I would change this... because, people normally request a specific amount of service, and not a "class name" ... :-)

[schro]

if it's really modeled like this (so, Y passengers want to fly Y and won't change to C, even if C is at the same price as Y), then I would change this... because, people normally request a specific amount of service, and not a "class name" ... :-)

I have found that there's no spillover demand between the classes even if F is priced lower than Y.

The demand works within +/- the number you see for the class - if its 0, I don't think it'll go beyond 1 seat filled even at the lowest price you can possibly charge.

Economy plus concepts are doomed to fail anyway in the real world :-)

[samomuransky]

I can imagine this once we'll have service levels adjustable... possibility of spiliting cabin into more economy classes with different prices and different services.

[swiftus27]

sadly, I am not for this idea.  We have enough of this to choose from right now that we dont need to divide out a 4th class of passenger. 

[DenisG]

I agree with swiftus!
Denis

[samomuransky]

This would be sub-class in Y class.. there wouldn't be demand for YPremium.

[altmants]

Economy plus concepts are doomed to fail anyway in the real world :-)

Then why do many airlines have this? Specifically United Airlines, which stated before it was one of their money makers.

[meiru]

hey, all I said was -> allow more classes on a plane... let's say... at most 7 or so... and then, let them install whatever seats they want and offer whatever service they want... so this gives you a quality-number for these seats, and then when the engine asks itself, if someone would take that plane or not, don't select according to classes, but according to quality that you have in these seats ... that shouldn't be that hard to code... :-) ... and now you know also, that airplanes is just a hobby for me, my job is constructing software

but, about what altmants said about United ... that's exactely why I was mentioning this class...

[schro]

Then why do many airlines have this? Specifically United Airlines, which stated before it was one of their money makers.

Its been tried time and time again, and failed each and every time.  It has yet to fail with United, but when you look at their relative financial strength compared to the other majors in the US, they're only ahead of US Air, which really doesn't say much.  If you must know, they really haven't charged for Economy Plus for all that long...

Ultimatly, it seems to work well for LCC's that use it instead of a first class or as a primary perk as part of a FF program for loyal fliers. Noone will actually pay a significant amount of money for the service - leisure travellers will be too cheap to stump for the upgrade to the bigger amount of leg room, and business fliers are shackled by corporate policy that requires them to purchase the cheapest available Y fare (which would not include an economy plus ticket), and for international travel, they'll either be required to buy J or lowest available Y, meaning Y+ would not be approved by the expense beancounters.

So here goes a cursory review of a few attempts at economy plus seating:

American Airlines: "More Room throughout Coach" was attempted circa 2000-2004. While this wasn't a economy vs economy plus situation, they basically made all their planes economy plus with an extra few inches of leg room. Link to article describing failure.

Midwest Airlines: The article tips its hat to Midwest for continuing to have a high seat pitch in coach (note, this was written in late 2004).  Please note that Midwest was bought by Republic for a mere pittance and is nothing more than a soon to be retired livery on some E170's.

Jet Blue: Also mentioned in the article.  They aren't really in the same market, as their primary motivation was to get the seatcount down to 150 in their A320's so only 3 FA's would be required. They also don't have a first class cabin, so the seats up front are their way of "upgrading" their elite fliers.

Continental: Recently started offering "exit row seats" "economy plus" to those willing to stump up the cash.