Hi, I'd love to know whether we could see a few new Very Large category "ghost" (as in, I know they don't yet really exist) cargo and combi airliners. Aircraft such as 767 combi / 777 combi / 787 combi and 787 freighter (actually 2 Kenya Airways 787s have been converted to all cargo I believe). Also A330 combi and A350 combi and cargo ? I mean, It's not like the game isn't already full of other "ghost" airliners - ones that never made it past the drawing board IRL, so why not?
Thanks
I dont get to play the game that much that this ever affects me but I see som much of these sorts of problems for people that I totally agree. I can at least see from my perspective the insanity of the crazy cost model when you go from 3 to 4 and more fleets. Sorry but that ruins the game for mee too. I want to enjoy more fleet types without that bankrupting my airline when the next fuel spike hits.
I would actually prefer to add more pure cargo planes first, since the combis are a bit of a odd and special case since we can't (for now at least) change the configuration of the pax/combi spread. Thus making them a bit limited to the players. (Not sure how easily they can change the internals in the real life, haven't really researched, but seems to be a bit of a difficult case to handle, since there are many exceptions and special configurations involved?)
I think in real life combis are by and large dead. The FAA upped the requirements for passenger safety in the '00s such that it made any mixing of cargo/pax on the same deck totally cost prohibitive. Which makes sense as who'd like to have "squished by breakaway crate of ipads" on their death certificate? :P
Simon
Quote from: Sami on January 27, 2022, 09:41:25 PM
I would actually prefer to add more pure cargo planes first, since the combis are a bit of a odd and special case since we can't (for now at least) change the configuration of the pax/combi spread. Thus making them a bit limited to the players. (Not sure how easily they can change the internals in the real life, haven't really researched, but seems to be a bit of a difficult case to handle, since there are many exceptions and special configurations involved?)
Well that sounds really good. I do understand these things we ask are not a quick 5 minute tweek for you. Even if I could see my way to using something more modern than 767s as freighters into 2035 that would be brilliant - we just need 1 plane out of 787 or A350 to start with. Also, I appreciate you like to use RL data to create these. Perhaps it would help to find out the RL data of the Kenya Airways 787 cargo planes and start off by going along with that?
@groundbum - hi Simon, yes I get it in RL the combi's are dead, I agree that's true... my whole point is that we need something to keep this game fluid into the mid 2030s since we do get there in these GWs and IRL we haven't gotten there yet :laugh: so we cant be following only the way RL has happened. ;)
I'd lurrrvvvvvvvv a A330C omg or a340-500hgw-c !!!
@ Sami
Would it help if I tried approaching the company that performed the cargo refit of those 787s for some basic data? If so, can you give me a draft of the type of data you would like from them?
Yep, sure. Since we have the 787 data, the cargo version needs the capacity, and operating weighs, and possibly also the range values if different from pax (full payload range at least).
https://aircraft.airbus.com/en/aircraft/freighters/a350-freighter (https://aircraft.airbus.com/en/aircraft/freighters/a350-freighter)
range 8700km/4700nm
109k kg
Quote from: Sami on January 27, 2022, 09:41:25 PM
I would actually prefer to add more pure cargo planes first, since the combis are a bit of a odd and special case since we can't (for now at least) change the configuration of the pax/combi spread. Thus making them a bit limited to the players. (Not sure how easily they can change the internals in the real life, haven't really researched, but seems to be a bit of a difficult case to handle, since there are many exceptions and special configurations involved?)
come on, really? the 747-400M? no chance? it would make the whole 747-400 fleet group so much more desireable. and its actually a real plane. and its done quickly i am sure.
Quote from: groundbum2 on January 27, 2022, 09:59:54 PM
I think in real life combis are by and large dead. The FAA upped the requirements for passenger safety in the '00s such that it made any mixing of cargo/pax on the same deck totally cost prohibitive. Which makes sense as who'd like to have "squished by breakaway crate of ipads" on their death certificate? :P
Simon
klm flew the 744M up to the covid pandemic and then realized that they are the best planes to be used as improvised freighters, so they kept them flying for a while longer, while the regular 744 were retired. and in canada, combi 732 are still flying and will probably for the next 10, 20 or even more years
Pretty sure there was an actual A340-300M in use at one point, by KLM if memory serves. Will try and dig out some sources.
Quote from: groundbum2 on January 28, 2022, 11:10:36 AM
https://aircraft.airbus.com/en/aircraft/freighters/a350-freighter (https://aircraft.airbus.com/en/aircraft/freighters/a350-freighter)
range 8700km/4700nm
109k kg
Range, as in "what range"? ;D that alone does not tell anything. Range with full payload? Range with some suitable payload for marketing purposes? Empty range? ;)
Naturally also cargo hold capacity is needed too.
we could always try start with the a350-900f (proposed but not created) since it would have the same specs as a350-900, except for cargo volume.
If I research the A350F Sami is there a fair chance it'll be added to the database? Don't want to waste my time etc...
S
can we add A310-300F into the list as well :-[ :-[
Can't we just make an 'intelligent guess' as to the numbers for something like the A350F? I reckon, with the knowledge already gained from other types, we could come pretty close. If it wasn't quite correct then - so what! At least it'd be the same for everyone so no advantage and remember that a lot of the original figures over the years have been tweaked quite a lot due to inaccuracies. I'm all for accuracy where possible (I HATE the idea of adding imaginary types), but for a 'future aircraft' it doesn't matter so much.
Airbus themselves announce the purpose-built A350F
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF-VmGkQfxs
Im salivating at 109tonne payload with about 5 tonnes of fuel per hour. That would be mindblowing for my cargo ops :)
Also, found some rudimentary technical specifications but they should be sufficient for what the game needs.
https://www.airbus.com/sites/g/files/jlcbta136/files/2022-02/Airbus-A350F-Facts-and-Figures-February-2022.pdf
Quote from: knobbygb on January 29, 2022, 11:00:57 AM
Can't we just make an 'intelligent guess' as to the numbers for something like the A350F? I reckon, with the knowledge already gained from other types, we could come pretty close. If it wasn't quite correct then - so what! At least it'd be the same for everyone so no advantage and remember that a lot of the original figures over the years have been tweaked quite a lot due to inaccuracies. I'm all for accuracy where possible (I HATE the idea of adding imaginary types), but for a 'future aircraft' it doesn't matter so much.
certainly no less accurate than the a350-800 or other never-produced modells, and probably way more accurate than the 747-family!
The linked PDF seems to have enough data. Of course that is still preliminary, but should be okay based on these.
YAY yyyyy ;D
This will certainly spice up the final decade of long GWs - however, just a thought here Sami.... If we don't get the introduction to the Gws of this model until 2022 then if a game finishes in 2035 do folk really have sufficient time to get a fair share each of this model and see the benefits of it? Maybe stretch timescales a bit and allow introduction of it in say 2020 already and then maybe lengthen GW to 2040..... ?
Jack
Quote from: Sami on February 22, 2022, 12:35:39 PM
The linked PDF seems to have enough data. Of course that is still preliminary, but should be okay based on these.
omg Christmas came in February! Any chance 350F/787F will be added to current TMT??? Pretty please?
I couldnt find a single official doc for the 787f. Hopefully seome can find the specs :)
Also, I found the specs for the 777-300ersf:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.iai.co.il/drupal/sites/default/files/2019-12/777-300ERSF%2520Brochure.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjxy4iux5T2AhUPJTQIHcxEC9UQFnoECAoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2VCZ4gTPbWEvaCYe-PBvk0
Additionally, very rudimentary specs on 777-8f are available from boeing too:
https://www.boeing.com/commercial/freighters/#/777-8f-highlight/777-8f/cargo-arrangements/
Quote from: Cornishman on February 22, 2022, 02:57:38 PM
YAY yyyyy ;D
This will certainly spice up the final decade of long GWs - however, just a thought here Sami.... If we don't get the introduction to the Gws of this model until 2022 then if a game finishes in 2035 do folk really have sufficient time to get a fair share each of this model and see the benefits of it? Maybe stretch timescales a bit and allow introduction of it in say 2020 already and then maybe lengthen GW to 2040..... ?
Jack
Also I wholeheartedly agree with this, world ran to 2035 when i started the game 5 years ago. Now with planes that would launch in 2025 available, worlds like MT should definitely look to end in 2040 now that more and more planes are avilable from 2020 onwards
We dont even have all the actual combi's yet.
707-320C is a combi aircraff, they came with a cargo door.
In fact, its nuts you have to pay to convert to the CF because the door is already there so you just take the seats out....
I would love to see also the Quick Change planes of the 1960s and 1970s (e.g. the B727-100QC), which had the capability to be converted in 2 hours from 100% passenger (for day operations) to 100% cargo (for night operations) and vice-versa... Braniff, among others, utilized them a lot.
Quote from: jezbanks on March 13, 2022, 11:21:06 AM
We dont even have all the actual combi's yet.
...............
True. We also miss the Combi versions of the DC-9 (10 and 30 series), of the Fokker F-28, of the BAC 1-11, etc.
And what about the Canadair CL-44, based on the Bristol Britannia, used by Loftleidir and other carriers in the 1960s and 70s?
But to compensate, we can buy/lease the rather obscure AW 650 Argosy... ;-)
Quote from: wingman on April 07, 2022, 10:06:10 PM
True. We also miss the Combi versions of the DC-9 (10 and 30 series), of the Fokker F-28, of the BAC 1-11, etc.
And what about the Canadair CL-44, based on the Bristol Britannia, used by Loftleidir and other carriers in the 1960s and 70s?
But to compensate, we can buy/lease the rather obscure AW 650 Argosy... ;-)
Not to mention the BAe.146QT !
Quote from: wingman on April 07, 2022, 10:06:10 PM
But to compensate, we can buy/lease the rather obscure AW 650 Argosy... ;-)
Most of the real life Argosies were actually full freighters, sadly that version is missing from the game.
In its combi form, hugely underrated by many players (IMHO), probably due to its looks?