Hey,
I'm in the trial at the moment and was wondering if in the game worlds is it still easy to make money?
The trial only has 100ish players where as the game worlds all have 300+ is competition not a bit fierce?
Most routes already covered etc and not many airport slots?
What world would you recommend I join? (Not beginners world because it ends too soon?) I want chance to build a big airline.
Thanks in advance for your advice!
you can join any time
Don't forget the demand on routes is distributed so even if there is 100%+ supply on any route pick the right aircraft and youll make money
Competition makes the game, if its easy what is the point. Jump into a GW and have a go.
No, it's not that easy to make money, especially if you land in a place already covered by an existing players. It's hard to begin a game that just begins, it's even harder to begin in a running game. But it's doable, if you are skilled. Or if you target a smaller place with a lot of routes not used yet.
Actually, real games usually begin with 500/600 players, and the clearing in the beginning is rather harsh. And later, fleet transitions or other tough moment kill quite a lot of companies, too.
All standard routes are already covered in standard games. For slots, it depends on the game & the airport. But (1) it's possible to make money on a route whose demand is already 120% covered. Just fly smaller birds than opposition(and not too many of them). And (2) if you find an airport with no opponent that is not too small, there will be free routes. Probably those routes will be smaller. Both points lead to advise to begin with smaller birds than you would have on day one.
You are a beginner, you are probably not experimented enough yet to build a big airline, especially in an existing world. With patience and careful avoiding of the dangerous spots, though, you can build an average-sized company(quite a few hundred airframes, probably with a majority of mediums).
Now, let's have a look at games I can look in :
GW1 : Year is 1992. Companies could not consolidate as much as in GW2. You're quiet with petrol prices up to 2000 or so. Though most airports are already taken. Ukraine is usually a good spot to begin in this date, but someone already went. Luxembourg is protected up to 1998, and the local player didn't take all the place, by far. You'd play only medium aircraft there, though, and probably props to avoid the fuel price hit in the 2000s. Some small US airports seem to have still room to grow, as Theodore Francis Green, Bufalo or Reno. I'm not even looking at toher continents, I don't know them well enough.
GW2 : Year is 1999, most players are seating on stockpiles of cash money(the game profile was different, and allowed companies to consolidate much easier). 1999 is one of the harshest possible starts, because fuel prices are going up all the time, and then there is that event in the USA that kills demand. Kiev has been taken, and is no more a good idea. Tbilisi is available, but I'm not sure it's big enough for your taste. Zvartnots also, and is better, but still stays smallish. That one is hard right now, very hard.
GW3 : Year is 2022, and there are only 14 years before the end. Some players begin to get bored, and the 1998 start has cleared out a lot of players - including a few very good ones. You won't have much time to build a big company, but other players might be less aggressive now, the war is behind them. Fuel is very costly, which means you have to lease costly modern airframes if you fly anywhere far. Which means Europe is easier than other places(but opponents also survive longer...)
GW4 : no clue.
bottom line, avoid GW2, unless you want to begin in hardcore mode(super hardcore - attack me in Warsaw, I'm vastly overcovering most of destinations there - if you survive until 2005 and the opening of Poland to openskies, you're a kickass player. I'm probably easier to attack in GW3 in Algiers, but you'll be short on slots very soon).
Quote from: gazzz0x2z on June 22, 2018, 08:52:12 AM
super hardcore - attack me in Warsaw, I'm vastly overcovering most of destinations there - if you survive until 2005 and the opening of Poland to openskies, you're a kickass player. I'm probably easier to attack in GW3 in Algiers, but you'll be short on slots very soon.
Do this if you want to go bankrupt in no time ;)
I'm not an expert, but I would say stay away from anyone with high profit margin and pre-tax profit. They are usually good experienced players.
Quote from: stealy on June 22, 2018, 11:20:06 AM
I'm not an expert, but I would say stay away from anyone with high profit margin and pre-tax profit. They are usually good experienced players.
That's what I was saying. Maybe my sarcasm was not clear. Aim for weak companies, with too many fleet groups, or obsolete ones without any renewal orders, with s***ty(or even negative) margins.
It was clear. And I was just adding to what you already said just in case he takes that literally haha.
Though it would be very funny to see someone attacking me right now in Poland. I don't even think I would have to do anything about pricing or scheduling to strangulate the newcomer. Just my sheer excessive'(cause yes, I've got too many flights) presence would prevent from groiwng.
Cheers guys! :P
In GW1 STN only opened a year or so ago. While most routes have been taken (and two UK airlines have opened bases there), there is still quite a bit of unserved demand on shortish routes and slots are still plentiful. Even the routes that are covered would mostly support one more medium-sized aircraft at least. There are some dirt-cheap turboprops available (F.27) to get started and also plenty 737-200. The F100 production line is wide open, as is the 737-700 (and 800 when it arrives). I reckon (as an experienced player though) that's where I'd start. I calculate roughly that there's capacity for 120 F100 and maybe 80 turboprops over the next couple of years. If you keep it very simple (just ONE fleet to start with), schedule very wisely (wring every last minute available from each leased aircraft) and don't over-stretch yourself, I think that would work.
in GW3, Kiev just had a BK of its last company. That's just 13 years to go, but there is enough place to grow & learn there.
I've joined I wanted UK because I'm familiar with the airports and destinations but after extensive research worldwide I found a suitable base, I'm now Big in Japan but I think I've made a boob! I just opened a second base Medium assuming a B737 was a mid size aircraft... So now I'm stumped and have 3 options
Option One: write off the 8mil I paid to open the base and close it.
Option Two: wait about a year realtime to build upto 49mil to upgrade the base.
Option Three: break the golden commonality rule and introduce a third fleet group (which could also benefit my HQ base because I still have destinations there that have demand of between 50-100 so I could utilise those routes too)
Advice much appreciated! ::)
Your airline is not even 1 game year old and you opened your second base. Your HQ only has some 29 planes flying around. To be frank I don't think you are ready to have a 2nd base at all. Try to "own" your HQ first. That's your most important base and you should totally make use of all its potential. Only when you really cannot expand there anymore consider opening another base.
But since it's too late now...let's see. A 2/4 base is not really expensive. The management costs will get costly with 3/4 and 4/4 bases. But 2/4 (medium bases) are quite affordable so I wouldn't worry about it too much. You only have 2 active fleet types at the moment (737 and 777), so a third fleet type is no issue at all. You probably won't have any transition to newer fleet types in this game world, so the 3rd fleet type can be used without worrying about transitions.
The "golden rule of 3 fleet types" actually is meant for long game worlds with lots of fleet transitions. Basically this means you have 2 active fleet types and use the 3rd fleet type for transitions. But since you won't have transitions, you can use it for another fleet type. Even a 4th fleet type is not much of an issue if your entire fleet is rather small. It only gets worrysome with say 200-300 planes and more.
My advice: Keep the 2/4 medium base, get a 3rd fleet type (medium planes) and make use of the base. Upgrade it only if you really need "large" planes. If you only fly within Japan, medium aircrafts might suffice. I once opened 3/4 large bases to fly with DC9. This was really costly for my small airline back then. I downgraded the base to a 2/4 medium base and flew Viscounts instead which was way cheaper. So a 2/4 medium base is a good starting point for you right now.
Just saw you respawned in Dallas Love Field.
The first routes are excellent, as they rightfully use the route image bonus given for the first routes. But don't keep that strategy : your next routes won't have that route image bonus, and it's time to spread out from there. Scan all demand from the USA, and put one single flight everywhere it makes sense - and only one, even if thre is place for 3/4. Only after a few months, you'll have enough route image to put more flights on those routes.
EDIT : that landing at 0110 from San Juan is probably a problem, but it's not such a big problem. It's better to avoid landing during the night, but the penalty is not that big, compared to taking off during the night(which is an absolute no-go)
Quote from: gazzz0x2z on June 29, 2018, 07:28:40 AMEDIT : that landing at 0110 from San Juan is probably a problem, but it's not such a big problem. It's better to avoid landing during the night, but the penalty is not that big, compared to taking off during the night(which is an absolute no-go)
Interesting to know.
Have you got any rough numbers for comparison out of interest?
Quote from: Mort on June 29, 2018, 10:08:04 AM
Interesting to know.
Have you got any rough numbers for comparison out of interest?
Well, in the very rare case I'm planning that kind of unnatural things, my policy is to reduces prices by 20% for the flight that lands at night, and by 40% for the flight that takes off at night. given I'm the kind of player to price higher than standard on most situations. I just made a reset to standard +10% in GW2.
GW 3 is nearing its end but there are still 14 game years. Some players are getting bored and are shutting down rather large airlines, so this gives newer players like you a good opportunity to try a "real" game world in a good airport. Take a look! You can open up shop somewhere and then just check the bankruptcy notices, and switch to one of the vacated places.
I have only played one long game but I am having really good success, so there are the caveats to my opinions.
Don't worry about the 3 fleet rule until you are well over 100 aircraft. Just keep an eye on the "staff training" expense line because that is where the 3 fleet rule hits you. Some players will tell you never to violate this rule but I advanced my airline greatly (simultaneously killing off numerous domestic competitors) flying 4 or 5 fleets.
Play the beginner world once just to learn the mechanics of scheduling your aircraft. Then join a regular GW. Who cares if you go bankrupt a few times...its just a game. Try to learn from your mistakes and move on.
It is probably a lot easier to start out as a regional airline because smaller aircraft have a shorter ROI. My airline is flying BaE-146/RJ, 757s and A330. If we are talking about the new cost, the ROI on my regional jets would be 1 or 2 years. ROI on a 757 is about 3-5 years and on an a330 4-7 years. Of course once you recoup the airframes initial cost, the bigger aircraft will make you more money per airframe but this only really becomes an issue when you saturate your routes and/or run up against the aircarft quantities limitations which will take you forever to do if you join a game late.
The exception to this in my game is my 757 cargos. They are extremely profitable for what you have to invest in them. Right now I could get a a used 757 due D-check 2, convert it (conversion does the d-check) and put it on a route and ROI would be 6 months. The only problem is finding the profitable routes...you have to be at a big airport with a lot of cargo. Of course you are a Japan based airline so that would be no problem at all for you.
One other thing to keep in mind is aircraft availability, not what aircraft you want to fly. You might want to have a fleet of 737 but you cant buy any because there are not on the UM and the next available production slot is 8 years out. Early in my game the plane to have was the F-27 but I could not buy any new and the few on the UM were over-priced so I went with the Herald. Yes, they were a little slower, a little more expensive to operate but they were 1/2 the cost of the F-27 and they were available. I made a killing.
Another piece of advice...avoid Russian made aircraft prior to say 1990. They may appear to be a good deal but the maintenance costs on them are extremely high and accelerate more than aircraft manufactured elsewhere. Early in my game I bought some Russian made jets and operated them at a slight profit until I realized this. When I got to the first D-check I realized that it would wipe out all the profits the planes had ever made and then some so I had to put them into storage for 3 years until I was able to scrap them (although a few of them I was able to pawn off on some fools who leased them from me or bought them). Buying expensive to maintain aircraft before the 1st d-check can wipe out your airline because in this game there is no way out of that situation (you cannot scrap a plane before it is 10 years old and you can't abandon it or give it back to a creditor).
Also be very wary of fuel price spikes. These things occur at historically appropriate times in the game (early 70's fuel embargo, Gulf War I). Aircraft that make you a lot of money at $60/1000kg will kill you at $250/1000kg. The 707 is specifically bad (I think some of the players call it an "airline killer") because it has no engine upgrade in the game (there were upgrades proposed and used by the USAF but are not modeled in the game to my knowledge). Late model DC-8s (-60 on) do have an engine upgrade that makes them much more fuel efficient.
Actually barring it's now crippled turn times, I've found the TU114 to not be too bad at all. It's handicaps of course are 50% higher maintenance and higher staff requirements but it's really not any worse on fuel than 707/DC8 (At least until 60 series arrive on the scene)
It's acquisition cost is a fraction of the others which makes up for its other operational costs.
And the Il-18 is probably the best classic Soviet plane ever (at least in the game). Given you play in a country with low salaries, it is very, very good. And the cargo version is awesome as well.