Hello,
I noticed that when you look up how much pax a route has, you see a blue bar (economy class), a red bar (business class) and a yellow bar (first class).
But when you look at the people that are already serving the route, you just see the total amounts of seats they sell in all classes together.
I would like to see how many seats they sell in each class, it would help as you could choose a more adapt configuration to fit the route.
Is it possible to do this?
I think it' just to make the game harder. Just like how we can't view other airline's prices.
Not seeing the prices, he wants to see how many seats people put for each class.
Quote from: fabio on April 16, 2009, 04:23:53 PM
Not seeing the prices, I want to see how many seats they put for each class.
Yes, I completely agree. This would help on plane configuration decisions.
Quote from: JJP on April 16, 2009, 07:08:58 PM
Yes, I completely agree. This would help on plane configuration decisions.
And like already mentioned, they are probably hidden to make the game a bit more complicated. Not sure though, if it's intended or just happens to be like that..
I like it as it is. You can't see the offered seats on each route. This makes it a bit more challenging and people need to pay attention to pricing.
/BE
But is this realistic? In real world airlines can easily find out competitors' prices and what configuration they're using.
Quote from: EFHK on April 17, 2009, 05:06:05 PM
But is this realistic? In real world airlines can easily find out competitors' prices and what configuration they're using.
Yeah, I agree.
The only thing is that seeing the prices is a bit too much. I mean, seeing how much seats there are for each class is a thing, but seeing their prices. If you could do that, there will be a competion just based on prices and not any more on company image, that would not have an importance any more
I don't know much about how the aircraft and their configurations are chosen in the real world, but I could imagine that there can be aircraft at different configurations on the same route, and not as static as they are here. Thus, it might not be so realistic to see the configuration, as it probably changes according to how many tickets are sold in each class.
It's not a problem to show it but I am more worried about the graph becoming unreadable.
is it possible to have from the main graph an under-graph opening the configuration of the seats sold (also just for a selected day were of interest)
Quote from: sami on April 17, 2009, 10:26:44 PM
It's not a problem to show it but I am more worried about the graph becoming unreadable.
Couldn't it simply be the same as what is shown for passenger demand: a bar graph with different colors for each seat type. Set this graph (total supply by all players) right next to the demand graph and then the player's individual supply graph next to that. I would think that would be very readable.
Quote from: EFHK on April 17, 2009, 05:06:05 PM
But is this realistic? In real world airlines can easily find out competitors' prices and what configuration they're using.
In real life rotations are swapped depending on sales and a/c availability. So, you really can't find an absolute figure showing how many seats of different classes are available.
Quote from: sami on April 17, 2009, 10:26:44 PM
It's not a problem to show it but I am more worried about the graph becoming unreadable.
How about this?
(1) Display the amount of each class of seating for the route within the total capacity bar (the green one).(Users should still be able to mouse-over each part of the green bar to view exact numbers of total C/F class seats on the route)
(https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg27.imageshack.us%2Fimg27%2F2701%2Fseating.png&hash=c4f5ab4056ba61f299ac44b1589a93ed5f099ffe)
(2) Display prices for each class of seating, for each airline.(https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg412.imageshack.us%2Fimg412%2F7355%2Ffares.png&hash=b384a5babac89844e632ad98607c3c31926981c9)
Quote from: Filippo on April 17, 2009, 05:09:50 PM
The only thing is that seeing the prices is a bit too much. I mean, seeing how much seats there are for each class is a thing, but seeing their prices. If you could do that, there will be a competion just based on prices and not any more on company image, that would not have an importance anymore.
I agree; to make it a bit more challenging so certain routes don't become micro-managed fare wars, how about displaying a
range of the competitor's fares? How about making the size of the range vary with the number of people you employ in your Route Strategies department?
i.e... the more Route Strategies people you employ, the smaller the price range that is displayed.. hence, you gain a more accurate picture of competitors' prices if you spend more resources on your OWN company ;)
something like this, for example...
(https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg150.imageshack.us%2Fimg150%2F9775%2Ffares2.png&hash=6219655164fe4d84c26411d8698627a13fe57e42)
This way, you are striking a balance between realism and challenging gameplay: the system doesn't tell you exactly how much the competitors are charging, but it also makes the game a bit more competitive because you have at least
some idea of what others are charging.
:)
I kinda like that idea, though I am against of showing the prices. But let's see. ;)
Branmuffin,
That is absolutely fantastic!
I really like everything of it.
I really hope that Sami does it!
I really wish this won't come to the game. It becomes a snow ball, when people try to reduce prices in turns.
Keep it hidden I say!
However, price really isnt that huge of a facotr. Of course, if you have 5 airlines running 2x daily 747s on JFK-LHR in Y at 125 and only you are running 2x a day 747 with a price of 300 in Y, then you'll see a really big difference, but in general price under cutting isnt that bad.
Great work there Branmuffin! :laugh:
No competitor pricing of any kind should be available. even if you do a range of prices people will just undercut the lowest part of the range. Any kind of competitor pricing information will only lead to horrendous price wars that will drive every competitive routes prices down to the bone and will have the effect of squeezing out the little guys as the big airlines will just take the hit. This might happen in real life, but this is a game and everyone hasa right to have fun.
I agree with whats been said already. Would like the graph to show the supply of Y,C&F seats, but am completely against seeing competitors prices.
Let`s see what happen in RL:
although not very detailed and precise normally competitors have the possibility to know prices on a specific route.
Why they do not undercut prices? Simply because there is no garantee than that price will lead to more demand. Also other factors do the nice job and we have already modelled them into the game as we have marketing on-board, route image, company image etc this last depending on various other things like maintenance, labour level & morale etc...etc. Those all influencing our demand. It should be clear in the game as it is in the RL that price wars do not have any chance of success and do not present any danger for a solid, well-established a/c.
Well... the Brunmuffin´s idea is not bad but if I center the range in the competitors fare of this schema I will be immediately able to catch the target price, no matter how big is this range.
If we model a system in which setting new planes will be done more difficult (after only 4 month game time actually in "the jet age" first three a/c fly all together 103 planes!!!! :o) and thus new routes more accurate than I think it would be not such a big room for price wars. I mean you may even do that but you will be the loser too.
The game play issue of a price war is not when two equal airlines duke it out, but when a much larger airline starts going after your routes and undercuts prices in order to drive the weaker airline out.
Quote from: Branmuffin on April 20, 2009, 07:33:59 AM
How about this?
(1) Display the amount of each class of seating for the route within the total capacity bar (the green one).
(Users should still be able to mouse-over each part of the green bar to view exact numbers of total C/F class seats on the route)
(https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg27.imageshack.us%2Fimg27%2F2701%2Fseating.png&hash=c4f5ab4056ba61f299ac44b1589a93ed5f099ffe)
Nicely done, Branmuffin.
I'll chime in as well I'd like to see Y/C/F but no pricing.
I've also felt the same need of knowing details about the competition, without reading this thread.
What i felt I needed, more exactly, was to have details about the airplane that the competitor is using. This is because I wanted to try to beat the competition by using more comfortable seats.
I know that I will generally get more traffic share if i will lower the prices, and knowing the right price could be just a matter of trial and error (if the opponent stays passive..)
But what if the seat comfort is another variable to consider? I guess it will just shift the right price to use, but knowing a little bit more of the competitor's routes like seat configurations has sense, for me.
In fact, those are all info that in the real world could be retrieved, while in this game are all inaccessible
Thanks
Also knowing the competitors' prices would be a great feature. It isn't so hard to just browse their websites or call a travel agency. I mean in such big companies as airlines there should be at least one person who is able to check the prices. Even I can do it right now, more or less accurate (what should be implemented to, similar to demend's estimation accuracy).