I spent half a month on AirlineSim and honestly, I'm very disappointed with their demand system. The pax there can pay 300% of the original price as long as you can treat them royalty. I wanted a sim where pax also values low price over services. AirlineSim's got no marketing mechanism too. So in your opinion, what's more complete>
I looked at that game (AirlineSim) recently.
I couldn't quite figure out if this is a game I played once or different. But it had the same "feature" - more like Achilles Heel - of being "real time", where 20+ hour flight to Far East takes 20+ real hours to complete. So that's pretty bad.
Here, at AWS, a day takes approx 30 minutes to complete. So you cam start small end end up with 1000+ aircraft airline...
Is it possible to create a low-cost airline here? Since in AirlineSim, its not possible with their pax mechanism.
Quote from: JohnLiam on May 14, 2018, 07:45:59 PM
Is it possible to create a low-cost airline here? Since in AirlineSim, its not possible with their pax mechanism.
Depends on how you define low cost. Ticket prices are all inclusive here, so you're not going to do the low
farecarrier thing so much (i.e. by unbundling/etc). As far as low
cost goes, you drive your costs down through how you run your airline - aircraft selection, how you schedule your planes, the routes you fly, etc. The result of running a better operation allows either a higher profit margin or a lower price.
TBH, it's not really possible to run a low cost airline in AWS. At least not the European model (which is a tad different from the US one).
Sami (the game's daddy) has it on its to-do list, but there are more important features coming first.
The toying you can have with the pricing is indeed marginal, and the interesting part lays above recommended price, not under it.
Still, I have a lot of fun playing this game, and I don't feel frustrated by this drawback (sure, would be great to have it, but there's so much already that I'm still busy trying to figure out all the rest).
Quote from: Tha_Ape on May 14, 2018, 08:05:11 PM
TBH, it's not really possible to run a low cost airline in AWS. At least not the European model (which is a tad different from the US one).
In what way is the models in AWS diffrent in US than Europe?
Fares are proportionally way lower in Europe when compared to classic airlines.
Like 40 or 50 euros (~50-60$) for an ORY-FCO round trip, stuff like that. Vs 150 at least for Air France or Alitalia.
Quote from: Tha_Ape on May 14, 2018, 08:58:23 PM
Fares are proportionally way lower in Europe when compared to classic airlines.
Like 40 or 50 euros (~50-60$) for an ORY-FCO round trip, stuff like that. Vs 150 at least for Air France or Alitalia.
I understood wrong, I thought you meant that the us and europe is diffrent programed in AWS... *Tired, time for bed*
Quote from: Tha_Ape on May 14, 2018, 08:58:23 PM
Fares are proportionally way lower in Europe when compared to classic airlines.
Like 40 or 50 euros (~50-60$) for an ORY-FCO round trip, stuff like that. Vs 150 at least for Air France or Alitalia.
Yet once you factor in the average of fare classes and ancillary fees, suddenly those airlines are on a lot more equal footing with repeat to average ticket price.
Quote from: schro on May 14, 2018, 09:09:39 PM
Yet once you factor in the average of fare classes and ancillary fees, suddenly those airlines are on a lot more equal footing with repeat to average ticket price.
Depends on what you call ancillary fees. A drink or a snack? Sure. The more expensive bus ticket because the airport is further away? Not always (Easyjet is based in main airports as well, and if you fly to a secondary city, there usually is only one airport there). Luggage? Depends, also. If you take Wizzair fidelity program (30€/year), you got a belly luggage for 5€, so if you travel a lot with them, the cost/unit is quite low.
So in the end, no, it's still quite cheaper. The customer service and accommodation are sure crappy as hell. But as far as we're talking of short hops, that's fine (for me, at least).
Oh, just one absurd example, 2 years ago, back from Mexico, change in FRA, with Lufthansa. Lost my connection. Next FRA-CDG was at... 600€! For a 45 mins hop. And the day after. Sure, dynamic pricing, that's what you want to think about after 10hrs in the air... Well, I took a bus, 14€, got home earlier.
While a last minute ticket on a lowcost carrier will rise as well, it will never reach those levels.
Quote from: JohnLiam on May 14, 2018, 06:53:13 PM
The pax there can pay 300% of the original price as long as you can treat them royalty.
This is the largest problem they have in their demand system. Players are creating ridiculous cabin layouts where an A320 for example is filled with 90 high class seats and tickets priced accordingly. This reduces the overall supply but demand is still based on real statistics so there have to be more flights to carry all these passengers. This in turn causes high demand for slots which is why nearly every larger airport is slot locked.
Quote from: JohnLiam on May 14, 2018, 06:53:13 PM
So in your opinion, what's more complete>
I like AirlineSim for the ability to establish a hub off the main airports through connections and this is the only reason I play it on and off. Once Airwaysim has city based demand running for passengers and the ability to have connections I'd say Airwaysim will be far superior based on:
how the maintenance system works compared to theirs
how late night departures affect demand negatively
non-real time / playing through different times for more gameplay diversity
the sheer amount of available aircraft
city based demand itself
I'm very close to switching to AWS.
One last question.
Is it also possible to make passengers pay for the in-flight services? In AirlineSim, you really can't. Which is a bummer.
Nope. All included (taxes, luggage, meal - or the lack of it - etc.).
You can check the details by trying a beginners world (BW), you got a free trial for one week and this will give you access to all the features (only the settings are different).
Quote from: JohnLiam on May 15, 2018, 06:53:38 AM
I'm very close to switching to AWS.
One last question.
Is it also possible to make passengers pay for the in-flight services? In AirlineSim, you really can't. Which is a bummer.
An unfortunate circumstance.
I've put in the request to charge for luggage since we have cargo now but it hasn't gone anywhere.
Zo, additional revenue from baggage would result in:
1. Unnecessary extra micromanagement for something that is already factored into ticket price
2. A lowering of base pax ticket prices to compensate (as with cargo), you don't get something for nothing and the net result would be the same.
3. Something that is un-necessary from a real life perspective as well. You know, until recently baggage fees weren't even a thing in most of the world except the US. The rise of the low cost carriers has brought that trend to the Europe as well, but even in Canada, the switch to charging for baggage only happened since I moved here in 2014, and it's still included in the ticket price on all long haul.
This game runs from 1950-2036, there's no point creating more complications'segmentation for something with no benefit, and a tenuous correlation to real life.
Quote from: Zobelle on May 15, 2018, 07:48:57 AM
An unfortunate circumstance.
I've put in the request to charge for luggage since we have cargo now but it hasn't gone anywhere.
How about passenger meals?
AirlineSim is a great game. I've played there for more than one year. Has some great features that I would like to see in AWS:
- pax transfer so that is possibile to create an hub
- the possibility to check other companies prices with a reservation board so that you have a better understanding on what's happening to your flights
- the possibility to evaluate an aircraft convenience on a route before buy the plane and open the route
- the possibility to edit the seven day schedule in one page
- onboard services
- maintenance system that doesn't involve too much micromanagement like here
Anyway what mainly make me prefer AWS is the fact the AirlineSim is in real time. So a game is a sandbox where nothing really happen. No historical planes, no fuel or economic variation, etc. At the end it became boring. Some games are there from 2007 :o
There are other things the I like of the game, For example the fact that you have to schedule a transfer flight if you want change the base of a plane, or slots limitation for arrivals or effective code share agreements. But those features don't make big differences in my opinion.
There is also the possibility to create subsidiary companies, but I never tried it.
The interface of AirlineSim is a little confusing but, in my opinion, requires less clicks than AWS (for example to evaluate the routes demand).
For what I know, some features that AWS is missing are on the todo list.
Quote from: JohnLiam on May 15, 2018, 08:38:29 AM
How about passenger meals?
Not modeled. And you cannot choose how strong you brew the coffee either :laugh:
As said before, there an all-inclusive pricing. You have control on this one, but that's all.
If you're focussed on onboard service, then know this is not the strong point of AWS.
Very good game indeed, but more focused on plane use, strategies, operational costs, long term planning, etc.
Probably a larger scale - can't control onboard service pricing with micro-management on 1000 A/Cs.
Quote from: Tha_Ape on May 15, 2018, 09:15:49 AM
Not modeled. And you cannot choose how strong you brew the coffee either :laugh:
...
If you're focussed on onboard service, then know this is not the strong point of AWS.
There must be a restaurant simulation game out there to accommodate this need.
Quote from: Luperco on May 15, 2018, 08:54:20 AM
AirlineSim is a great game. I've played there for more than one year. Has some great features that I would like to see in AWS:
- pax transfer so that is possibile to create an hub
- the possibility to check other companies prices with a reservation board so that you have a better understanding on what's happening to your flights
- the possibility to evaluate an aircraft convenience on a route before buy the plane and open the route
- the possibility to edit the seven day schedule in one page
- onboard services
- maintenance system that doesn't involve too much micromanagement like here
There's also a point that I found interesting when I saw the game previews - some kind of class restriction for aircrafts - like, you can't fly a very small aircraft from one big airport to another big airport, for example - which I find very effective in preventing route spamming that is kind of common here. And there's also the stock market feature. The only points that I didn't like, and made me ultimately not play it, was the real time simulation and its price!
Quote from: wilian.souza2 on May 15, 2018, 01:01:51 PM
There's also a point that I found interesting when I saw the game previews - some kind of class restriction for aircrafts - like, you can't fly a very small aircraft from one big airport to another big airport, for example - which I find very effective in preventing route spamming that is kind of common here. And there's also the stock market feature. The only points that I didn't like, and made me ultimately not play it, was the real time simulation and its price!
I've made calculations and counted the cash needed to be spent to be ale to play for eight weeks. AirlineSim is more affordable.
Quote from: JohnLiam on May 15, 2018, 04:10:23 PM
I've made calculations and counted the cash needed to be spent to be ale to play for eight weeks. AirlineSim is more affordable.
If you are buying credits by small increment, it is usually a lot more expensive than buying in bulk. I tend to buy the biggest amount of credits during Christmas sale, and then I am good for next year or two years.
I've been on Airlinesim for years, and the only negative I can say is that the game has been discovered by gamers and is no longer the home of airlinenerds like myself.
I've been on airwaysime for a few weeks now, and I still don't see how you can actually do something on here. You lease a plane, you'll lose money, you wait until you make money, you lease a plane, you lose money again, and you wait... a lot of waiting. You have no control on what's happening, you go to a labourous system to try and find how a route or plane perform and maybe take some corrective action...
Quote from: DeZee on September 02, 2019, 08:09:31 PM
I've been on Airlinesim for years, and the only negative I can say is that the game has been discovered by gamers and is no longer the home of airlinenerds like myself.
I've been on airwaysime for a few weeks now, and I still don't see how you can actually do something on here. You lease a plane, you'll lose money, you wait until you make money, you lease a plane, you lose money again, and you wait... a lot of waiting. You have no control on what's happening, you go to a labourous system to try and find how a route or plane perform and maybe take some corrective action...
It depends on which level of simulation you prefer and to what level of detail. AWS is a CEO strategy level game, you don't typically micromanage a single flight and its employees. That's too far removed from the main focus of being a CEO of an airline.
As far as the interface, it is just a question of getting used to it, and learning where the information you are looking for is. So just a question of giving it some time, and then you will know exactly where to find the information you are looking for.
Quote from: JohnLiam on May 14, 2018, 06:53:13 PM
I spent half a month on AirlineSim and honestly, I'm very disappointed with their demand system. The pax there can pay 300% of the original price as long as you can treat them royalty. I wanted a sim where pax also values low price over services. AirlineSim's got no marketing mechanism too. So in your opinion, what's more complete>
In my opinion you should try this AirwaySim (AWS) game and though it might be more expensive, I'd say its definitely worth the extra. yes there are some features which AWS game doesn't have which AirlineSim does... but developments are at this moment happening we are informed.
One thing I would point out since you specifically mentioned it - Advertising. I have mentioned it in other topics before, but the advertising in this AWS game to me is far from well proportioned. It costs a fortune and when I see an airline who has a Company Image (CI) of only 16% competing on a long-haul route with old A330s and they have an exact same proportion of the route market as I do with new 787s, yet I spend a huge fortune to maintain my CI at 100% - that tells me (despite numerous protestations from some folk and AWS management at my previous complaints about this) that the marketing system is poor on this game. Also - it appears to offer exciting alternative advertising strategies (newspapers / TV / Internet...) but there is zero strategy in that... it only boils down to how much money you spend in total which makes any difference to your CI.
But like I said - on the whole, this is a much better sim game than the others and we are hopeful of even more improvements. Yes I'm one who always likes to flag-up where things imo need fixing, but that doesn't detract from the overall great features in this game, so spend the money and come and try it out properly mate.
I do not like to start comparing different products here at our forums. I've never really used that software; they have their thing and we have our thing, and AirwaySim's continuous development and improvement happens based on what we feel is the best way to go forward and not by comparisons or copying. And especially the help and "challenge" from the community here is one of the big driving forces.
However. I do have to stop right here, and say that according to my calculations AirwaySim is considerably cheaper to play.
Their website lists pricing strucure as follows "4 credits per day, 50 Cr costs 1.8e and 2000 Cr costs 62.4e". If we do a simple comparison on two scenarios, one where you play 60 days and another where you play 500 days, the result is that in both cases AirwaySim is more affordable to play! And in the long scenario (500 days) by a whopping margin of 40% cheaper here at AWS!
Math #1, single game / single airline played for 60 real days:
- AirwaySim: 60 days => 8,5 weeks => 5 Credits to join (incl first week) and then 1 Cr per week => 13 Cr total needed => Pack of 10+3 Credits costs 7.7e. Cost per day is 0.128e per day.
- Another product: 60 days => 4 Cr per day => 240 Cr needed => Total price 8.3e (250 Cr is the closest pack they have and it costs 8.6e). Cost per day is 0.138e.
==> AirwaySim is about 8% cheaper when played for 60 days.
(If we include the trial period (7 or 14 days) in the first scenario (60 days), then cost of AirwaySim is 8 Credits (4.9e) and the alternative product costs 180 Credits (6.2e). AWS is some 20% cheaper.)
Math #2, single game / single airline played for 500 real days:
- AirwaySim: 500 days => 71,5 weeks => 5 Cr to join (incl first week) and then 1 Cr per week => 76 Cr total needed => Total cost 37.7e (50+20+6cr). Cost per day is only 0.075e!
- Another product: 500 days => 4 Cr per day => 2000 Cr needed => Total price 62.4e, or 0.125e per day. 40% more expensive.
==> AirwaySim is 40% cheaper when played in the long run (500 days).
This simple math does not take into account the even bigger bulk discounts for large Credit pack purchases at AirwaySim, making it even more affordable (and all-in-all the sums in question are small, less than 10 cents per day). AirwaySim's marketing has always been speaking that it costs roughly about 0.1e/usd per day to play, depending on the length of your session and what kind of discount Credit pack you purchase. This hasn't changed in years.
In any case please do not belive such commando marketing tactics claiming AWS would be somehow the expensive one.