AirwaySim

( disclaimer as Hostingpics is about to close, I had to actually upload the images in the forum, so they now appear at the end of the post, sorry for the inconvenience)

Scheduling Basics

Hi everyone. Having mentored countless beginners, and having seen the same questions - and mistakes - countless times. So what is a good schedule?

A good schedule, basically, is using the plane to its maximum. A plane makes money in the air, not in the ground. The more blue you have on your schedule, the better. But how to do that?
The other rules to remember are :
_you are penalized strongly in terms of Load Factor for taking off or landing between 0000 and 0455. You are penalized lightly, bit still, for taking off or landing between 2300 and 2355 and 0500 and 0555.
_you are penalized strongly in terms of Load Factor if you take off with less than one hour of difference between two flights on the same route - but only if you have opposition(don't worry, it comes quickly - someone who starts 3 daily flights at 0600 for the same destination has identified himself as a target). This sime span get lower for destinations with very heavy demand. Around 2000 demand, 30 minutes are usually enough between two flights. NB : start time of your opponents is always irrelevant. Just their number of flights is
_you are penalized in terms of delays and cancellations if you don't allow any margin between flights. 737-700 are able to do a turn-around in 40 minutes, but it's safer to aim for 70 minutes.

The first thing to do is to know you fleet. With a 737-700, for example, I know I can cumulate 2200NM per days if I fly twice during the day. Or 1550NM for three flights. Or 900NM for four flights.
Other jet single-aisle aircraft will have similar values. Regional jets are different, as they are usually slower, but with a better turnaround time, so they'll shine on short distances. You can even setup 5 daily very short flights with some of them. I did it with CRJs.

Which means, from Orly, with my 737-700, I can setup 4 daily flights to Strasbourg(217NM), or 3 daily flights to Figari(518NM), or 2 daily flights to Kiev-Borispol(1108 NM). Of course, I can mix destinations, with one flight to Kiev and two to Strasbourg.
Let's have a look at the simple method.
(first image, down the post, the scheduling image)
It's on the upper line, on this image. The F-BABE plane. 3 different destinations. Orly-Cork(456NM), 0520-0605/0720-1000, Orly-Prague(471NM) 1110-1255/1405-1600, Orly-Porto(648NM) 1710-1830/1940-2245

Several remarks on this schedule, which is good, IMHO, but not perfect. I had constraints when setting this up(like my other lines, limited slots, and the fact that Orly closes at 2255). Additionally, it's a port from a 737-300 schedule, which makes it even worse.
1)I'm flying 1575NM. That's just a little bit too much, and explains some of the imperfections. A certain level of imperfections is acceptable. Don't take off at 0200, make a minimum turnaround(40 minutes for the 737-700), and land at 0400
2)The flight to Cork is the most punished. Taking off at 0520 is already punishing, far more than 0550, for example. My load factor is higher on the back leg, and it's not random. Ideally, I'd set up a lower price on the leg to Cork.
3)The turnaround time is important away, but also at home between two flights. This I did respect between each flight. It's important too, as it's very tempting to respect the full turnaround time in the schedule, but to stick 2 flights with only th minimum turnaround time between them. I could make the flight to Cork take off much later(with therefore a much better Load factor on the first leg), but I'd be punished in terms of delays and cancellations. Delays are damaging your image, cancellations are costing you a lot of money.


OK, this is good, but there are juicy destinations from Orly for 737-700 that are much further, and it's a shame if I fly only one a day. What to do? Well, in some cases, you can set up red eyes flights

A red eye flight, basically, is "take off late in the evening, fly to the East, and land early in the morning". Depending on the relative position of your base, the other leg will be before in the evening or later in the morning. From Orly, most destinations suitable for that are in the Middle east, so you'll be back in the morning. For Boston, suitable destinations are in the West part of the USA, so the red eyes flight is the leg back.

Let's have a look at the F-BABK here. It's flying to Boston from Orly during the night. It works because demand is not too high. If demand were above 220, it would be suicide to set up a 737. But as it's more in the 150, it works, and the plane is full and makes money. It's long for a red eyes flight : 1240-1510/1620-0600. The secret is to add a complement destinations 6 times a week; in this case, Newcastle(408NM), 0710-0750/0855-1135. Not a very good destination, there is a lot of opposition over there, but it's a secondary destination. The plane makes its money on the Boston route, the 12 daily k$ of the Newcastle route are just a bonus.

The important part here is : 6 times a week. Not 7. Because of the A-Check. And the airplane flies 19 hours per day in average. Good use of capital. Not my best plane(very long range 737 routes are never gushing money), but still a good one. Don't start a company with that kind of flights, though. You'll notice some 65 minutes of turnaround, here also, I packed as much as I could.

Note also that the Distance a plane can daily fly is bigger. You have to make a few tries with your favourite fleet group to know it well, and know what distance you can afford daily. With a 737-700, you can notice you're not far from 3400NM for 2 flights


There is a third type of "simple" scheduling, that is not as efficient as the first too(day-only or red-eyes), which I'll call "sleep-outside". It's inferior, but sometimes, you don't have the choice. Either because you're short on slots around 0600(a common problem for whoever plays in London City, where I learned the technique), or when you already fly 8 daily flights to a destinations, and still have some demand to fill.

The second problem is common in Orly, as it's a domestic airport, with a few key destinations having a lot of demand. So, you already have flights starting at 0600, 0700, and don't want to begin at 0800 because you'd lose too much time. Unless... Unless you make a short flight late in the evening, 6 times a week, with a huge turnaround, around 400 minutes, and you fly back to your base in the morning.

Which allows me to stack one more flight to Strasbourg. Not on saturdays, as I need a night for the A-Check, yet as saturdays have lower demand, it's not a big deal.

(second image down the post)

As you can see, I'm pushing a little bit : 2150-2255/0500-0610. You guessed it, my load factor is lower on the way back from Strasbourg. You'll have strategic choices to make between "more flights", and "better flights"

Anyways, with those three methods, Day-Only, Red-Eyes, and Sleep-outside, you should be able to successfully use all planes up to the "large" size.

For the very large ones, and distances beyond 3400NM, you need advanced techniques.

For reference : my other tutorials :
costs (https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,72381.0.html)

Scheduling Advanced

Using Very large(like the A330 in the following examples) aircraft to link far away destinations is a rewarding, yet challenging action in Airwaysim. Very large aircraft cots insane amounts of money to buy, or, even worse, to lease. Their overhead and staff costs are prohibitive. Which means they'd better always fly and make money, if you want to survive a few years, or, even better, make good money out of them.

There are three techniques used by the experimented players. Two are similar, the 1-plane-7-days technique, and the 1-plane-6-days technique, and the third one is completely different : the 7-planes_7-days technique.

The image below shows you all the details of a 1-plane-7-days flight, as well as a 7-planes-7 days technique

The lowest plane in my list, the F-SAEG(tough to see, that's the eight and last in the list) is doing a 1-Plane-7 days technique, for one single destinations, Chicago, in this case.
Saturday : 1350-1625/1855-1040
Sunday : A-Check 1210-1710, then flight 1750-2025/2255-1440
Monday : 1710-1945/2215-1400
Tuesday :1630-1905/2135-1320
Wednesday : 1550-1825/2055-1240
Thursday : 1510-1745/2015-1200
Friday : 1430-1705/1935-1120

This one is nearly perfect, as 3599NM is the perfect distance for this exercice. Everything takes off or lands between 0600 and 2255, all the available time is exploited, and the 150 minutes turnaround for the minimum delay risk of 1%. One is not always that lucky.

The 1-Plane-6-days-schedule is exactly the same, but for longer distances : you skip one day(usually the saturday/sunday night), and setup 6 flights, and can fill up distances beyond 4400NM.

This method is efficient, but when the distance is not perfect(not all juicy airports are exactly 3599NM away from Orly, after all), you may cringe seeing some of your flying time unused. Here comes the 7-planes-7-days schedule. On my screenshot, it's the 7 other planes doing just one of them.

Yes, the 7 planes schedule requires 7 planes. I know, one gets surprised by it, sometimes.... The idea is to begin on monday, fill as much as you can with different destinations, with a A-check, and finish the next monday, leaving just enough time for the turnaround. Easier said than done, especially in smaller airports like Orly, where juicy destinations are not in big numbers.

So, how does it work? Well, I've got 7 A330s, from F-SACT to F-SACZ. The F-SACT starts on monday, the F-SACU on tuesday, up to the F-SACZ that starts on sunday. And they all to the same, with one day of offset.

the F-SACT flies so :
Monday : A-Check 0000-0500, Saint Denis 0540-2100/2330-0900
Tuesday : Le Lamentin 1130-1555/1825/0835
Wednesday : Pointe A Pitre : 1105-1525/1755-0755
Thursday : Seoul 1030-0600/0830-1305
Friday : Dakar 1535-2030/2300-0555
Saturday : Taipei 1530-0610
Sunday : back from Taipei, 0840-1520

That one is far from my best(had no other juicy destinations when I made it), as it's not fully used. You can see two holes, one small between Dakar and Taipei, and a bigger one after the flight to Taipei. Still, it's good enough to make money.



Now, the one billion dolar question : which is the best? 7-planes or 1-plane? Each one has its own qualities and drawbacks. Most of the best players are choosing the 7-Planes schedule, as it has the huge advantage of making a better use of your costlier planes, and allowing more destinations. Taipei, in my example, is just little too far for a 1-plane-6-days schedule.
1-plane schedules, while more limited, allow other cool things : a more dedicated seating, especially, that allows you to tailor your aircraft for maximized income. Taipei has 7% buisness demand and 1% first demand, while Dakar has 3%/0%. Which means expensive seats are empty when flying to Dakar. 1-plane schedules also allow quicker moves. If you want to take a destination right now, and not let opposition the time to realize that you're going there, the 7-planes schedule is too slow to set up(time for the 7 planes to arrive). OTOH, 7-planes schedule will reduce your costs and increase your capability to cover a lot of destinations, and with it your capability to resist an attack from an opponent.

I'm mixing both, and it's not random. Both are efficient, and have their uses.

Of course, feel free to ask questions, correct potential mistakes, or add additional knowledge on the topic.

Simply perfectly explained. That will surely help some people here.

Maybe you should add the little detail that the departure time of your competition is not relevant. I have seen many people "attacking me" on my departure times thinking they will steal passengers like that. But that's not the case...in this regard it may be worth mentioning that the total demand on a route will be equally shared between the number of flights (given the RI, CI, price, seating etc. is similar). Not many people seem to understand this.

Thanks Andre. I added your first point. Your second one belongs to route choice, another tutorial I want to make(about route mapping and route choice) sooner or later.

- Is it necessary to aim for that 1% delay chance, with for instance leaving full 3h20m between each legs for A380?
- Is it necessary to leave some room for flight depart before and after A-check other than just that 5 hours maintenance time? How about for B-check scheduling?
- So even if ten other players all flown same route daily departing the airport at 2255, it won't affect my load factor no matter i depart at 2255 or 1055?

1) Not necessary, but recommended
2) No I would say, because maintenance has no delay in the simulation and it is being doing regardless if the flight right before the maintenance has been delayed. Correct me if I'm wrong
3) Exactly

Quote from: Andre090904 on May 14, 2017, 07:34:16 PM
2) No I would say, because maintenance has no delay in the simulation and it is being doing regardless if the flight right before the maintenance has been delayed. Correct me if I'm wrong

That's perfectly right AFAIK. The 1-Plane-7-Days schedule example I am giving Has exactly 5 hours for the A-Check(when I say the distance is perfect...)

Is there an easy way to calculate the best range for a 1-plane-7-day schedule depending on the specific aircraft?

Quote from: LRoDgy on July 23, 2017, 12:44:21 PM
Is there an easy way to calculate the best range for a 1-plane-7-day schedule depending on the specific aircraft?

168 hours, minus 5 hours A check, divide by 7, then minus (2*turnaround time), multiply the time with aircraft speed kts figure. the resultant figures in nm would roughly be the optimal distance with some nm in excess due to the time needed for landing/take off. try and calculate a bit for the exact distance.

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense, should probably have been able to figure that one out by myself  :-[

Just like to thank you Gazzz for spending the time to write the tutorials. They are a necessity to become competent player in the game. Thank you

I have been able to compile a 7 day schedule for 7 aircraft without a problem thank you. I am unable to do the 7 day schedule for 1 plane. Can you confirm which boxes need to be checked to get the correct route screen to compile the schedule. Thanks

Quote from: paddk989 on July 23, 2017, 02:57:31 PM
I have been able to compile a 7 day schedule for 7 aircraft without a problem thank you. I am unable to do the 7 day schedule for 1 plane. Can you confirm which boxes need to be checked to get the correct route screen to compile the schedule. Thanks

Well, I'm using multi-tabbing intensively when doing that. A 7/Day-1/Plane schedule is just 7 seperate routes, with the same flight numbers, each on a different single day(so that you can keep the same number), and at a different time. Let's imagine I want to open another route like that(not a good idea, there is alot of opposition now, but just for the example) :

• Select Orly base by a click under the company name
• Click Route planning(from LFPO)
• Search and find KORD airport. Click on the link to reach the demand chart
• Right click on open new route, and choose "open in a new tab" in your browser(no, you can't do it with a smartphones. Real computers are far superior). Seven times.
• In each tab, confirm the routing as it is. It's the f***ing 21st century, tech stops are so 20th century.
• For the first tab, choose saturday only, flight at 1350, fleet group, turnaround if you didn't set up a standard. Don't validate yet.
• For the second tab, choose friday, flight at 1430, fleet group, etc.....
• For the seventh tab, choose sunday, flight at 1750.
• Check every tab before validating ; slots must be available, flights shall not overlap, turnaround times shall be respected between two flights, you have enough money for buying slots, etc...
• Click Confirm in each of the seven tabs. It buys the slots automagically, and bring you to the post-confirmation screen each time.
• Use one of the post-confirmation tabs to set up a marketing route, if needed(i.e. if it's a route opening).
• Use another of the post-confirmation windows to allocate the 7-in-1 lines to your aircraft(because you've got already an aircraft in order, arriving within 3 weeks, right?)
• Close the remaining 5 tabs. Voilà.

Note that multi-tabbing is also very useful for 7 days 7 planes schedule. I've got one tab per destination, when doing those. But, in this case, select "every day" and "Create each day as a separate route". And check, and re-check, and re-re-check everything before confirming, and don't buy those slots yet. Unless your 7 planes arrive within 3 weeks, but that's not common.

Thanks Gazzz for your comprehensive explanation to my question. Thanks for your time.

Because of the vastly different speed for piston aircrafts and turboprop aircraft, when upgrading routes from piston, sometime it would need a total reshuffle on schedule to properly utilize those new faster aircrafts. In such case, how to properly schedule those aircrafts with minimal slot lost/minimal slot reacquistion fee in mind?

You are 100% correct qunow. When I converted from the dc3 to the viscount, shortly after the game started, I lost at least 50% of the slots bought.

Well, fleet change is another topic. In current GW2, when I replaced wayfarers(180 ktas) with CV240(240 ktas) (a move of debatable strategic quality, especially that early in a plane-starved game, but that's another topic...), I didn't lose much money. How that?

First, I moved routes to the new plane keeping the starting time. OK, you'll tell me, it's nice, but at the end, I've got a 90 minutes turnaround in Oslo, for a plane that is better used with 40/45 minutes of turnaround. Why bother with a quicker airplane yet? Because it's far cheaper to move the slot after. You'll pay only 10% to 30% of the slot cost when reducing to 40 minutes. For very small changes, it may even be free.

For smaller changes, it's more a matter of planning. When I play 737 classics, I tend to set up turnaround times at 65 minutes, so when I switch to NGs, it goes naturally to 70 minutes on average flights.

I see.. so if I am rescheduling most of the flights by hours off their original departure time then there aren't really much that can be done except for progressively accumulating changes...

Quote from: qunow on August 01, 2017, 10:13:51 AM
I see.. so if I am rescheduling most of the flights by hours off their original departure time then there aren't really much that can be done except for progressively accumulating changes...

And add a short flight, or move a short flight from another schedule, or reorganize the schedule to use less planes, etc..... It can be a rather interesting game of Tetris played with the scheduler, where you try to fill your airplanes while limiting the cost of slot changes.

So if I want to move a schedule from for example a prop to a jet plane, I can click the move schedule green arrow on the schedules page. Then it only remains to edit the last flights turn time. Would that be correct.

just don't forget to keep starting times. That's one of the buttons, you can either focus on the standard turnaround time(as defined in the settings), or on the existing starting time for the away leg. I'm always using the second option, as it gives more flexibility to adjust the schedule. It's more work too. You decide.

Also, when moving schedule, there are routes that originally require stop over but thsoe stop over can be ditched with new plane. I guess the easiest way to process them without losing those slots would be to close the route and keep the slot but then open up same route with same original departure time on both end?

probably. I did never do that, but I will have to in GW2. Though my problem is that most tech stops are during the night. Won't be easy  :-\

Actually, it was also part of my original problem... After cutting away techstop and increase in speed, the original 45 minutes turnover time could increase to something like 8 hours gap which you would have to make a huge change on the scheduled time to make the aircraft being used effectively and as such have to paid the slot fee again at least for one side.. Guessed that there are no way around it.

Thanks thats so helpful!

thank you for this great and very detailed post :)

Should I let a gap of a turn around time between the end of an A check and a flight? I realized the scheduling system requests you to let a gap of at least the minimum turnaround time between a flight and the start of an A check, but it allows you to "snap" the end of an A check to a flight. Can I do this in scheduling without worrying about delays/cancelations?

Quote from: wilian.souza2 on October 05, 2017, 05:02:37 AM
Should I let a gap of a turn around time between the end of an A check and a flight? I realized the scheduling system requests you to let a gap of at least the minimum turnaround time between a flight and the start of an A check, but it allows you to "snap" the end of an A check to a flight. Can I do this in scheduling without worrying about delays/cancelations?

No, the game does not go up to there. Scheduling is perfect when you can have exactly 5 hours for your ACheck. It's not common to succeed that feat, and usually needs some luck. You need margin between flights, you're right. Not for the ACheck.

Was looking at your very good explanation on scheduling.. One question... At the very beginning you said "_you are penalized strongly in terms of Load Factor for taking off or landing between 0000 and 0455. You are penalized lightly, bit still, for taking off or landing between 2300 and 2355 and 0500 and 0555."   Does this apply to cargo flights that carry no passengers as well??  Thx  CHuck

No, cargo has no such thing, can take off / land at any time. And if you have plenty of daily flights with pax on a route, it might be better.
That allows easy scheduling.

Thx

Quote from: gazzz0x2z on May 14, 2017, 09:07:26 AM
The other rules to remember are :
_you are penalized strongly in terms of Load Factor for taking off or landing between 0000 and 0455. You are penalized lightly, bit still, for taking off or landing between 2300 and 2355 and 0500 and 0555.

Are load factors of techstopped routes affected if the techstop is done in between the times mentioned above? There was a time I had lots of techstopped routes and would get asymmetrical load factors for pax on some routes, and other routes would get load factors way below what I expected, and I assume that's because there were techstops in the middle of the night.

To my knowledge, for pax transport, tech stops are penalized for any take off or landing between 0000 & 2355. ;D . The penalty grows with the game years.

But I didn't play enough with this to be sure.

And get initial leg 1 take off + tech stop landing + tech stop take off + arrival + leg 2 take off + tech stop landing + tech stop take off + final arrival between 0600 and 2255...
Whoooof!!
I hope you don't fly that route more than once a day :laugh:

I don't think that the tech stop time will affect the passenger load factor, only the departure and arrival time matters.

Anyway, as the departure and arrival times are more important on short and medium routes with competition, and  my tech stop routes are all long haul and uncontested, maybe I cannot appreciate the effect of tech stop landing and takeoff times.

Hey Gazzz, thank you for your tutorial! I have a question that hopefully someone can answer for me. When is it possible to schedule flights within less than 30 minutes from each other without getting penalized? I'm flying FLL-LGA which has about 3000 pax/day demand and I'm wondering if I can schedule flights 20 minutes apart... I remember 20 minutes was enough for super super high demand routes but I'm not sure if 3000/day is large enough...

I remember the regional challenge where the route between Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo had about 7000 daily demand. The system only allows a maximum of 40 daily flights per route. A day has 1440 minutes and 40 flights a day meant a flight every 36 minutes (in average). I remember I had flights every 15 minutes during the morning hours and it was no big deal.

Now that was a route with 7000 demand. I am tempted to say that a route with 3000 demand should be good enough to fly it every 30 minutes. But let's see what others have to say.

The rule of thumb as I remember is: if the route has demand greater than 1000 it is acceptable to fly more than once per hour (or at least leave gaps of less than an hour between departures).

Quote from: Andre090904 on May 14, 2017, 02:51:00 PM
Simply perfectly explained. That will surely help some people here.

Maybe you should add the little detail that the departure time of your competition is not relevant. I have seen many people "attacking me" on my departure times thinking they will steal passengers like that. But that's not the case...in this regard it may be worth mentioning that the total demand on a route will be equally shared between the number of flights (given the RI, CI, price, seating etc. is similar). Not many people seem to understand this.

This is very interesting!
So I have, in the past been struggling to avoid getting close to any competitor by at least one t/a time!  :'( Sometimes even cancelled flights because I thought it would be bad for me to land or take off close to them..
This will change a lot in the future,
Thanks
/Hotcliff

sorry to bump but I had to say ... this thread has blown my mind

seven days seven aircraft...  :o

I came so close to figuring this out myself and yet so very, very far away. I've been messing around with Airwaysim on and off for a bit. I wish there was a brand new The Jet Age game so I could do this right from the beginning. I'm looking at my mess of slots now with shame  :-[  :laugh:

Took me 9 months of playing before my first try, and that was a very easy one(4 flights a week). Then 3 more years before using them for something else than very large aircraft. I just finished a 7-7 schedule with 7 MRJ70 in Leila Sebbar.I am getting used to them, finally.

But they are not always the best choice. It depends on the situation. And simpler methods may work up to 5000NM or so, though less efficiently.

Quote from: gazzz0x2z on August 21, 2018, 12:49:20 PM
Took me 9 months of playing before my first try, and that was a very easy one(4 flights a week). Then 3 more years before using them for something else than very large aircraft. I just finished a 7-7 schedule with 7 MRJ70 in Leila Sebbar.I am getting used to them, finally.

But they are not always the best choice. It depends on the situation. And simpler methods may work up to 5000NM or so, though less efficiently.

Hi gazz!
I did my first trial in ,Chile, South America with 7 Connies up to 2100 nm. It was amazing, once you set up the week flights for a/c no 1, then duplicating them with one day lag for each one. It worked very well  :D
Too bad my 35 Connies drained my profits in maintenance costs, but I realized my mistake and started over in Zagreb with F27-F28's  ;D

How big of a penalty to LF is it to be leaving at 5:00 rather than 6:00? Because I can fly enough extra miles to add an extra route in some cases if I depart at 5:00, but that doesn't matter if I'm going to be penalized more than not flying it to begin with. I know its been said that its a small penalty, but what is small in this case?

Quote from: Turbine on October 05, 2018, 02:16:08 PM
How big of a penalty to LF is it to be leaving at 5:00 rather than 6:00? Because I can fly enough extra miles to add an extra route in some cases if I depart at 5:00, but that doesn't matter if I'm going to be penalized more than not flying it to begin with. I know its been said that its a small penalty, but what is small in this case?

I do share your question indeed..
I have been wondering about this for a long time now, but never got a good answer. So, let's say how much does it affect a route between 06:00 and 05:00 and also, ldg between 23:55 and 01:00 ???
I have flown a lot in my life but never found a ticket cheaper if it landed after midnight  :laugh:

to my knowledge, the penalty is around 10% at 0500 instead of 0600. I did some extensive testing on Detroit-Buffalo, a line where I hadno opposition at the time, and While I could raise the ticket price up to 440$ at 0600, The plane was no more full above 400$ per ticket at 0500. This, in the late 2020s,and before the pricing overhaul that went with the arrival of cargo.

Quote from: Hotcliff on October 05, 2018, 02:37:59 PM
I do share your question indeed..
I have been wondering about this for a long time now, but never got a good answer. So, let's say how much does it affect a route between 06:00 and 05:00 and also, ldg between 23:55 and 01:00 ???
I have flown a lot in my life but never found a ticket cheaper if it landed after midnight  :laugh:

Hah! If only...then I'd only fly red-eyes.  ;)

Quote from: gazzz0x2z on October 05, 2018, 07:29:33 PM
to my knowledge, the penalty is around 10% at 0500 instead of 0600. I did some extensive testing on Detroit-Buffalo, a line where I hadno opposition at the time, and While I could raise the ticket price up to 440$ at 0600, The plane was no more full above 400$ per ticket at 0500. This, in the late 2020s,and before the pricing overhaul that went with the arrival of cargo.

Gotcha, thank you. Seems like it can be an issue in some cases especially when you're cash strapped or have some competition.

Quote from: gazzz0x2z on October 05, 2018, 07:29:33 PM
to my knowledge, the penalty is around 10% at 0500 instead of 0600. I did some extensive testing on Detroit-Buffalo, a line where I hadno opposition at the time, and While I could raise the ticket price up to 440$ at 0600, The plane was no more full above 400$ per ticket at 0500. This, in the late 2020s,and before the pricing overhaul that went with the arrival of cargo.

Thanks gazzz,
10% is no disaster if I can squeeze in a 3rd route a day on some F27's  :D

So I have been scheduling routes for planes under 2500nm recently and I have noticed a little dilema. I am running out of "Night flights", referring to flights usually around 1700NM or farther away which allows my plane to skip the bad nights hours, while there is still plenty of demand on flights much shorter flights which fill the rest of the day. Should I keep adding to night flights which are no longer very profitable thanks to oversupply, or should I just forget about the night and schedule planes throughout the day? I usually favour forgetting about the night hours and just squeezing three flights from 6:00-23:00.

I just want to hear how the experienced guys deal with this since I am really learning the value of efficiency in this game.

Thanks!

Quote from: tungstennedge on June 02, 2019, 12:22:18 AM
So I have been scheduling routes for planes under 2500nm recently and I have noticed a little dilema. I am running out of "Night flights", referring to flights usually around 1700NM or farther away which allows my plane to skip the bad nights hours, while there is still plenty of demand on flights much shorter flights which fill the rest of the day. Should I keep adding to night flights which are no longer very profitable thanks to oversupply, or should I just forget about the night and schedule planes throughout the day? I usually favour forgetting about the night hours and just squeezing three flights from 6:00-23:00.

I just want to hear how the experienced guys deal with this since I am really learning the value of efficiency in this game.

Thanks!

Bit difficult in your position at LHR, but in certain places you can look west as well as east.

What you might decide to do if you're running out of options is for routes say 13-1600nm where the demand is lower, and you are likely to be the only supplier is to leave later in the evening, as I believe the late departure penalty is lower than the early arrival one.

You could also move to a mix and match type 7 day schedule, where some days are just 3 shorter routes and the plane sits on the tarmac overnight at a 4th, flying back in the morning.

Quote from: tungstennedge on June 02, 2019, 12:22:18 AM
So I have been scheduling routes for planes under 2500nm recently and I have noticed a little dilema. I am running out of "Night flights", referring to flights usually around 1700NM or farther away which allows my plane to skip the bad nights hours, while there is still plenty of demand on flights much shorter flights which fill the rest of the day. Should I keep adding to night flights which are no longer very profitable thanks to oversupply, or should I just forget about the night and schedule planes throughout the day? I usually favour forgetting about the night hours and just squeezing three flights from 6:00-23:00.

I just want to hear how the experienced guys deal with this since I am really learning the value of efficiency in this game.

Thanks!

A problem I have myself with S2000s in MAD. not only I'm short of red eyes(that's the technical time when you fly long enough to take off in the evening and land in the morning) destinations since a long time, but I'm now short of sleepover destinations. I don't think you're nearing being short of sleepover destinations.

A good sleepover destination has a 0005 curfews, or even less than that, you land at 2355, you take off at 0500. Of course, it's not as good as a red eyes flight, but IMHO, better have a full sleepover flight than en empty red eyes flight. Red eyes flights are far, therefore costly in fuel, you'd better fill them or avoid them. Giving up a little bit of efficiency to get a lot more revenue always paid up rewards to me. It's even better when you can have both, but when you can't, my choice is always to go to better revenue, at the expense of cost efficiency. Still, think about it : with sleepovers, your bird turns over 305 minutes during the night. In LHR and its 2306 curfew, would be 425 minutes at best(assuming you can get slots at 0600, which is never a given in LHR).

My reasoning is the following one : when your company is profitable, income will be bigger than expenses. Therefore optimizing for income is more rewarding than optimizing for expenses. Not always true, of course, but often enough for bringing rewards.

H. I'm in the Eurochallenge. I've decided to purchase 6 Airbus 318 and configure them to be business jets. 6 First Class 15 Business and 66 Economy Class seats. Will the first class seats work? Or would that configuration work?

I just started using this concept after years of playing this game - thank you!

My question is: Is there a workaround for taking routes that are already flying "Every day" and separating them to create a new flight for each day? One of my base airports has no slots available between 05:00-07:05. And even though I already have a slot for a daily flight, when I go to separate them I have to "Create another route like this" and can't get my original slot time back, which interferes with my 24/7 scheduling.

Hope my question/explanation make sense!

Quote from: s5cmh170 on June 23, 2020, 03:09:19 PM
I just started using this concept after years of playing this game - thank you!

My question is: Is there a workaround for taking routes that are already flying "Every day" and separating them to create a new flight for each day? One of my base airports has no slots available between 05:00-07:05. And even though I already have a slot for a daily flight, when I go to separate them I have to "Create another route like this" and can't get my original slot time back, which interferes with my 24/7 scheduling.

Hope my question/explanation make sense!

Create new flight like this > cancel the previous flight (keep slots) > click submit to create the new one (with 7 day schedules)

Just requires additional tabs...

Quote from: LemonButt on June 23, 2020, 03:51:51 PM
Create new flight like this > cancel the previous flight (keep slots) > click submit to create the new one (with 7 day schedules)

Just requires additional tabs...

I think what he means is he's done that and can't get the slots again at that exact time. If his flights are at say 6am and it's busy sometimes if you keep the slots and try to use them again you need to go to 10 or quarter past before you can use them.

Quote from: wildavidson on June 23, 2020, 04:00:00 PM
I think what he means is he's done that and can't get the slots again at that exact time. If his flights are at say 6am and it's busy sometimes if you keep the slots and try to use them again you need to go to 10 or quarter past before you can use them.

Yes--you click create new flight to open in a new window.  You close the current flight and keep slots and in the new window the slots will be available...it will still show you buying slots, but it will say the price is zero.

but sometimes you "release" an 0600 slot in one tab, but in the other tab it's not available, you have to go to 0605 or 0610.

I think there's almost a bell curve spread going on, and sometimes the games gives away slots when it shouldn't, so when it see's a chance to get the slots back it does! You *will* get an 06xx slot, that's guaranteed, it just may be 5 or 10 minutes either side. Kinda annoying when you want a neat 7 day/1 line on a route..

Simon

Quote from: groundbum2 on June 23, 2020, 04:53:43 PM
but sometimes you "release" an 0600 slot in one tab, but in the other tab it's not available, you have to go to 0605 or 0610.

I think there's almost a bell curve spread going on, and sometimes the games gives away slots when it shouldn't, so when it see's a chance to get the slots back it does! You *will* get an 06xx slot, that's guaranteed, it just may be 5 or 10 minutes either side. Kinda annoying when you want a neat 7 day/1 line on a route..

Simon

I've only ever seen that happen of you release the slots back to the public pool.

Every time without fail if I have closed a route and kept the slots, I can create a route using that slot at the exact same time.

Quote from: Mort on June 23, 2020, 05:21:15 PM
I've only ever seen that happen of you release the slots back to the public pool.

Every time without fail if I have closed a route and kept the slots, I can create a route using that slot at the exact same time.

Thank you! I just tried this on one flight at the base with no available slots and was able to do exactly what you said. Cancel the daily flight and keep the slots in one tab, and create a new route on separate days at the same time in another tab.

Quote from: Mort on June 23, 2020, 05:21:15 PM
I've only ever seen that happen of you release the slots back to the public pool.

Every time without fail if I have closed a route and kept the slots, I can create a route using that slot at the exact same time.

It's happened to me that I've closed a route and been unable to open another re-using that slot at exactly the same time. Not often, but it's certainly possible. Not a big deal when it does, just move that day by enough to get a slot and stick a short turn in.

Hi Gazzz,
I have a question, if I use 7-plane schedule, how can I manage the price easily?

Quote from: NEWLY2014 on August 16, 2020, 01:39:17 AM
Hi Gazzz,
I have a question, if I use 7-plane schedule, how can I manage the price easily?

You can go to Manage Routes > Destination View to change all prices to a single destination with one action.

Quote from: LemonButt on August 16, 2020, 02:12:21 AM
You can go to Manage Routes > Destination View to change all prices to a single destination with one action.

Another possibility is to go on the route screen(the one with the map), and there is the "price management" button above the demand/supply charts.

I have a question regarding how to avoid incurring unnecessary personell expenses before an acquired plane is actually delivered.

I know that you shouldn't schedule a new/leased plane just after you reserved it since you would then have to pay for pilots and flight attendants for the two weeks it usually takes from a plane showing up in your scheduling overview until it is actually delivered and operational. But when exactly is the economically optimal point to assign routes to that new plane (and thus let the system automatically hire personnel if this setting has been turned on)?

My current assumption is that personell expenses are calculated on a weekly basis. So, assuming I would receive a plane on (in-game) Sunday, August 7, I could already start scheduling the plane on Monday, August 1 and not have to pay a penalty since the salary payments would be the same. Is that correct?

Thanks.

salaries go out every day (as seen from the income screen) so optimally add the routes the day before. You can always create the routes and schedule them to the plane to check they work, then clear the schedule.

The real trick is to get your airline to such a size making such a profit that the details don't matter too much...
Simon

Quote from: groundbum2 on August 29, 2020, 08:28:03 AM
salaries go out every day (as seen from the income screen) so optimally add the routes the day before. You can always create the routes and schedule them to the plane to check they work, then clear the schedule.

If you have automatic hiring turned on, then when you add the routes it immediately hires the staff, so scheduling and immediately clearing a plane defeats the purpose.

Staff used to be paid weekly on Tuesdays at midday, but is now done daily at midday. Most things in the game are calculated daily at either midday or midnight.

Therefore, if your aim is to pinch as many pennies as possible, the best way is to schedule the plane/hire the staff on the day you will first use it, and do so after midday so that you didn't pay the new staff on that first day.

That sort of micromanagement is generally not so useful after the very early growth phase, the restricting thing after that becomes your time rather than your airline's profit.

The #1 thing you can do to reduce staffing costs, which makes a much bigger difference than anything else, is to set salary increases to manual. Every March 1 you'll get a request for increases, and occasionally you'll get one on Aug 1 too. You can safely leave that request for ~6 weeks before morale starts to drop, then you simply agree to all requests with a single button click, and wait another 12 game months/1 RL week before doing it again. 20 years down the line your staff will be making less than someone who left auto-raise salaries on for 20 years.

the biggest way to reduce staffing costs is to swap from Large to Medium aircraft, like Ejets. Staffing is based on MTOW. I found I could switch 40 737 schedules to 40 ERJ190s and pilots reduced from like 400 to 250! Ditto cabin crew. 30% reduction I seem to remember. And of course Medium salaries are less than Large salaries.

There is a suggestion out there to base staffing on time in the air rather than MTOW but it's in a long todo list I suspect!

Simon

Thank you for your responses, that makes sense!

Quote from: groundbum2 on August 29, 2020, 11:42:25 AM
the biggest way to reduce staffing costs is to swap from Large to Medium aircraft, like Ejets. Staffing is based on MTOW. I found I could switch 40 737 schedules to 40 ERJ190s and pilots reduced from like 400 to 250! Ditto cabin crew. 30% reduction I seem to remember. And of course Medium salaries are less than Large salaries.

There is a suggestion out there to base staffing on time in the air rather than MTOW but it's in a long todo list I suspect!

Simon

That goes in the other direction as well. I once replaced hundreds of NAMC with MD80 and saved lots of money on staff in the end. Why? Because I could replace 3-4 NAMC with only 1 MD80 (3x the capacity, much more speed). Also, in your case, the E-jets are easily 30% smaller than a 737 (if not even more). The move to E-jets makes sense if you cannot fill your 737. If you can, however, the 737 will be the much better plane. Really depends on the situation/context in the end.

Before changing to smaller aircraft, check your longer routes first to make sure that the new smaller aircraft will not cause the "too small plane" message shows up.

Quote from: groundbum2 on August 29, 2020, 11:42:25 AM
Staffing is based on MTOW.

That is interesting. I always always choose the highest Mtow version of an aircraft type, to be able to carry max payloads to the edge of range. Might have to take a closer look at the impact of staff cost.

First of all thank you for this post, it is very helpful.

Have successfully implemented 7day schedules including red-eye flights on LH or transcontinental in US. Where I struggle however is in a location in the middle of the US (Dallas for example). The flights lack 1-2 hours to schedule overnight and remain within preferred take-off and arrival times (6-23). Therefore I usually remain within those hours, without red-eyes and try to maximize the distances with 2 or 3 flights per day.

How do the more experienced guys do this? Maybe someone is willing to share some tips or point me in the right direction?

Many thx!

Tom

Honestly, it's tough to do a lot of good domestic 7 day scheduling in Midwest US airports. The one suggestion I would have, is don't be afraid to take-off/land in the 0500-600 hour or 2300-0000 hour. Sometime I even do landings at 4:55. remember even if one segment has a penalty, the other segment is usually fine.

Cheers.

I've always run within the 0500 to 2300 range unless I have a great reason. Longer range planes of course open the capacity to just ship the damn things.