AirwaySim

A feature that many of you have been asking is now here for testing. The ability to move schedules between fleet groups.

In other words convert your DC-9 schedule to A320 schedule with a click of a button. No need to edit all of the routes individually! This will help in the fleet transitions a lot.

This is considered a beta level feature with limitations, possible bugs, and missing additional features.

It is currently only available to members to specifically sign up to use it, and it is not recommended for new users. The system does not support all combinations yet, bugs are highly possible, and some things may have been (accidentially?) omitted. This is why feedback is requested, required and more than welcome.


How to use the new feature

#1) You need to sign up for the test group: Join the Schedule Testing group. https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=groupmembership

Being a member of this group enables the feature. Otherwise you will see the standard system.

#2) Go to scheduling page, and press the 'move schedule' button (arrow icon) and you will see the normal menu of aircraft but now a dropdown of fleet groups is available. Simply choose the fleet and plane and click go...

#3) If the feature does not work, go to the group membership page ( https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=groupmembership ) and leave the test group - it will disable the new features for you.


Things to note

* I recommend highly to use this only on similar aircraft, i.e. planes with similar speeds and turnarounds. For example my BAC 1-11 to DC-9 conversion works well. But converting from a very fast plane like B767 to very slow plane like DC-7 will probably not work (untested).

* Error messages are poor and do not explain well where the error is exactly. In the case of errors nothing is converted and you need to do it all manually.

* Techstops are not supported yet by the conversion. Do not attempt.

* Turnaround times are not fully converted yet. The system defaults to the player's default turnaround time for that fleet for EVERY turnaround in the schedule, and it does not consider any longer turnarounds (for example overnight stops) at this time. If there is no default time set, the system uses the minimum turnaround for that fleet group.

* Slots are only converted directly, the system does not consider the availability of slots. The idea is that changes to the flight times are minimal and slot calculations so complicated that this will be left like this. Hopefully no abuse will happen, otherwise actions are needed. Curfews at airports are checked.

* If the routes flight times change so much that it arrives/departs on another day than with the previous aircraft the system will probably do something stupid. This is still totally untested.

* Other bugs and misbehaviour is expected. In case of something goes wrong, stop using the system (leave the test group), and the best course of action to make sure all routes/slots/data is correct is to delete the route(s) in question fully (including slots) and create the route(s) again from scratch (don't copy or edit; delete fully and add new).


Please post all comments to this thread only.

The testing is currently available in all six game worlds. If problems arise the testing may be disabled in some or all game worlds.

Since I rarely use even my default turn time on every flight in a schedule my testing of this feature will be minimal at this time, but I did move 2 DC-10 to A333 in GW2 and both transferred perfectly. Ideally, when transferring a schedule, the same departure time will be kept on the return flight regardless of default turn time or saved turn time, or we would have to option of transferring with the saved turn time or keeping the same departure times.

I will play with it more when I have time. I have some routes that are shoehorned in and I would like to see error messages and such if they new plane does not work.

Glad to see this request added, and I look forward to its final release!

It would be great if we could pick between these 2 options:

1. Maintain default turnaround time
2. Maintain the same departure times

First of all, Thanks for this great feature which i have been looking forward too in a very long time.

im in the midst of transition of fleets in GW2 so will test the feature in there - so far i've successfully replaced MD80 with A321 and i plan to do a 767 to 777 replacement in the not too distance future.

This feature will be a huge help with the 767 --> 777 especially

Currently my fleets and scheduled are already planned to make an easy transition, so i don't expect any major bugs. but i will try to do some more odd replacement later on as well, just to see the outcome

Now all we need is the mass scrapping of AC in the Aircraft page to complete the transition

Quote from: JumboShrimp on October 07, 2016, 05:05:48 PM
It would be great if we could pick between these 2 options:

1. Maintain default turnaround time
2. Maintain the same departure times

this would be very much welcomed from my part.. especially the later would work well for when you transition certain fleets
(F27->ATR, BAC - F100/  732AD/737Classics to NG's , MD8X->MD9Xs, just to name a few)
Maybe you can put a restriction that you can transition prop to prop and jet to jet.. even though prop to jet would work, I dont think it would help with the schedules..

One thing that I could foresee helping the efficiency of this tool would be having some sort of setting to tell the system that you're in "transition mode" for a particular fleet as a way to save clicks.

For example -

Not in transition mode/normal - Clicking move schedule would pop up the same aircraft type as the default selection (i.e. You want to move a BAC schedule to a BAC)

Transition mode - Somewhere in the settings, you will make a selection that a particular fleet type is transitioning, and you can select one of your other fleet types as the intended destination (for example, you're transitioning BACs to F100's - you set that as the transition mode selection). Then, when you press the move schedule button on any of the BAC type, the default presentation to you will be the F100 (but it'll of course still be selectable incase you want to do something wonky).

This should make things significantly easier for those of us that rely heavily on keyboard use for efficiency, as I foresee this being nearly if not more annoying than the pagination that was introduced to the move schedule dialogue a while back.

Quote from: schro on October 07, 2016, 07:33:20 PM
For example -

Not in transition mode/normal - Clicking move schedule would pop up the same aircraft type as the default selection (i.e. You want to move a BAC schedule to a BAC)

Transition mode - Somewhere in the settings, you will make a selection that a particular fleet type is transitioning, and you can select one of your other fleet types as the intended destination (for example, you're transitioning BACs to F100's - you set that as the transition mode selection). Then, when you press the move schedule button on any of the BAC type, the default presentation to you will be the F100 (but it'll of course still be selectable incase you want to do something wonky).

That would be a good option.  Default option for Move Schedule would be the current mode, BAC to BAC.

But in addition to enabling BAC to F100 it would be great if we could get the selection box for sub-fleets, the same as it implemented as a filter on all of the other screens with filter.

So for example, an option to select BAC-500 sub-fleet only would be available.

Enabling sub-fleet filter would greatly ease the pagination pain on move schedule.

A 2nd filter, in addition to fleet/sub-fleet that would be helpful would be a toggle between seeing
- all aircraft
- aircraft not in maintenance

With Aircraft not in maintenance checked as a default option.  Again, this would also ease the pagination pain.  Generally, when moving schedules, one would not want to move schedule to an aircraft that is in maintenance only as a last option, not as a first option.

Quote from: schro on October 07, 2016, 07:33:20 PM
One thing that I could foresee helping the efficiency of this tool would be having some sort of setting to tell the system that you're in "transition mode" for a particular fleet as a way to save clicks.

I will do it so that it just remembers your previous fleet selection there (already planned but didn't do it yet for this first version).

Update

• Conversion of routes with techstops is now enabled.
  
  
• The fleet selector remembers your last choice, and does not default to the fleet you clicked to transfer out. The memory resets when you log out from a game world (and at the first time it shows the fleet of the aircraft you clicked).
  
  
• Sub-fleet selector added.
  
  
• A couple of minor fixes too.

Also, ideas are welcome on how to make the error messages as understandable as possible.

I gave this a try for the first time over in GW3 - wanted to make sure the design is functioning as intended for this scenario -

777 to 787 conversion at EWR

1. Move a 787 to EWR as the only unscheduled plane in base.
2. Click move schedule on the desired 777
3. Move dialog box populates with the 777, even though nothing had been previously selected (I'm assuming because there were no unscheduled 777s at the base).
4. Move schedule (appears to work).

For giggles:
5. Click move schedule again
6. Defaults to the MD90/717 fleet group (apparently I had a couple unscheduled 717s there).

So, that being said, I would expect that the default "Move To" fleet should either be of the same type (even if there's none of that type in the base), or the previously selected type (as noted in the change implemented above) and not to the first available alphabetic fleet type.

Also, there may need to be some sort of information or constraint placed on the move box to deal with variance in range. It's nice that the plane's range is all shown, but I think it'd also be good to have a max(flight distance) for the schedule proposed to be moved in the dialog box to help keep things straight from an MTOW variant perspective...

The selector is one of the following when the dialog opens, in this order:

a) the previous sub-fleet group selected on previous move schedule action - if it has unscheduled aircraft
b) the previous fleet group selected on previous move schedule action - if it has unscheduled aircraft
c) the current fleet group, on which MOVE is clicked - if it has unscheduled aircraft
d) alphabetically the first fleet group - if it has unscheduled aircraft
e) nothing shown (no unscheduled planes anywhere in that base)

Quote from: Sami on October 09, 2016, 04:30:22 PM
The selector is one of the following when the dialog opens, in this order:

a) the previous sub-fleet group selected on previous move schedule action - if it has unscheduled aircraft
b) the previous fleet group selected on previous move schedule action - if it has unscheduled aircraft
c) the current fleet group, on which MOVE is clicked - if it has unscheduled aircraft
d) alphabetically the first fleet group - if it has unscheduled aircraft
e) nothing shown (no unscheduled planes anywhere in that base)

Ok. Good to know on the intention. Still something wobbly going on with it, and i think it's that the a/b steps are using a global sort of variable where it makes it sticky for ANY fleet move rather than for that particular type/subtype. For example, GW3 -

1. Click move schedule on an MD-90, select 787, click cancel.
2. Click move schedule on a 777, boom - 787 is presented, even though the 777 did not previously have selected move to type/subtype.

This is a bit jarring as I would expect that each individual plane type would remember where it's going for that particular session.

Another odd one in GW3 -

1. Move a single 773ER from LAX to EWR
2. Select a EWR 772ER, move schedule to 773ER (choice is automatically selected, could have been cached, dunno - I did not actively select).
3. Go to LAX, select a 772ER, click move, and ALL 777's show up (option B) even though there are 773ER's with open schedules at LAX.

This feature looks great, but we definitely need a setting to maintain default turnaround / same departure time. For DC-10 -> 777 transition I'll use second option.

Yep, it is great to see this added. I moved 28 DC-8 -> L1011 in 10 minutes earlier, normally about an hour task. But, as said, we need that option to keep the same departure times for the return when the schedule is converted!

Update

• Turnaround conversions are now done too. You can choose to:
  
  
  • a) maintain the current departure times on all routes (but this can change if the turnaround with the new aircraft would be below the minimum turnaround for that type)
    
    
  • b) or change all turnarounds to your default time
    
    
  • c) or if no default time is set use the minimum time for all turnarounds
    

All of the features are now done related to the new functionality. Better error messaging, general testing and fixes remain (for example the date conversions when the flight day changes).

Awesome! I will be doing mad work in GW2 later on. One more request if I can. In the case of curfews or arrivals right at 2355 or 0500, can a 4th option be added, to keep original arrival times?

Excellent.  Ability to select fleet sub-groups helps a lot even in regular move/swap schedule

Bug:

While converting MSN 50180, DC-10-30ER Reg No G-DYFA to an A340-300, I get the error message that LHR is closed at the arrival time. Manually converting routes 609960 (LHR-EZE-LHR) and 543015 (LHR-DIG-MEL-DIG-LHR) show arrival times of 0600 and 2250 respectively, both within LHR's curfew hours.

Edit: GW2

Edit 2: It seems this may be related to tech stops. MSN 50407 also gives me an error about LHR being closed yet the earliest arrival for any flight is 0725. In both cases, there are two tech stop flight assigned to the aircraft.

I see some errors in the log at 01.18 - 01.29UTC this morning, from your previous IP .. so yes, something wrong there.

Just tried the feature in GW3.  Worked like a dream, saving much time.

Ideally, I would like to see an option to "use your default turn-around time"  both at my home base/HQ and turn-around airport.

If you click "use default turn time" and you have a set turn time saved, it will use that turn time instead of system default.

Quote from: ZombieSlayer on October 12, 2016, 01:24:17 AM
Bug:

While converting MSN 50180, DC-10-30ER Reg No G-DYFA to an A340-300, I get the error message that LHR is closed at the arrival time. Manually converting routes 609960 (LHR-EZE-LHR) and 543015 (LHR-DIG-MEL-DIG-LHR) show arrival times of 0600 and 2250 respectively, both within LHR's curfew hours.

Edit: GW2

Edit 2: It seems this may be related to tech stops. MSN 50407 also gives me an error about LHR being closed yet the earliest arrival for any flight is 0725. In both cases, there are two tech stop flight assigned to the aircraft.

Another error associated with tech stops.

GW2 DC-10-30 MSN 47491 G-DZLA. Route 495145 LHR-KHI-PER-KHI-LHR creates an "overlap" preventing the line from being converted. Manually converting the route keeps the same arrival time of 0720, next flight departs at 0920. Error reads:

Cannot assign this route for this aircraft. The route would overlap another flight or maintenance check already in the schedule.

Please assign the route to another aircraft or change the route days or departure times.

The (first) overlap is at Th / 09:20.

Maintain Original Departure Time checked.


Edit: I would be willing to bet the issue is the routes turn time being applied to the tech stop instead of a 90 minute turn. In both cases it makes sense, the first error being the flight arrives while the airport is closed and the second causing an overlap. If 90 minutes is used at the tech stop, it works. If 150 or 120 minutes is used, it causes the respective errors. In addition, I had no problem transferring tech stop flights from DC-8 to L1011 in GW1 where the extra speed of the L1011 would easily cover the additional time spent at the tech stop.

Quote from: ZombieSlayer on October 12, 2016, 04:01:24 PM
If you click "use default turn time" and you have a set turn time saved, it will use that turn time instead of system default.

I have set a default tern-around time of 50 mins.   The Minimum turn-around time: 30 min,  When transitioning from an E190 to a CS100 (set a turn around time of 55mins) the new schedule on the CS100 was a turn-around time of 50 mins at the 'destination' airport,  yet the time between flights at home base was the minimum turn-around time of 30 mins.

It would be nice if the default time we set for turn-around would also apply at our home bases /HQ

I see what you are saying. That is because the CS100/300 is slower than the E-Jets. This is not an issue you could have forseen when scheduling the E190's since this feature did not exist then. For future scheduling I will be scheduling flights according to future fleet plans to avoid the situation you are in. In the mean time, you can manually adjust schedules to meet your minimum turn times or leave them as is and just run with a slightly higher number of delayed flights.

Quote from: Joshua Jordan on October 12, 2016, 08:15:02 PM
It would be nice if the default time we set for turn-around would also apply at our home bases /HQ

Conversion is done on per-route basis and it always retains the original departure time of the first leg of each route. And if the new a/c is slower it means that the home base turnaround is then made shorter (if you decide to maintain the original outstation turnaround too). Though the speed profile for CS and ERJ series very similar (high level cruise is the only difference) and on short routes the flight times are the same, but on long routes they can differ.


General note: Techstop conversions are buggy, I see several error log entries. (Please do not use for those routes for now.) Will be fixed later this week.

Update

• Bugfix on conversion with routes having techstops and while using "maintain original dep.time" setting.
  
  
• Enhanced the error message when airport is closed due to curfew (details on which route is the reason).
  

GW2

757-300 to 767-400er.

Worked perfectly for me, although I did need to go and change turnaround times as I used keep original timings option.

757-300 to 737-400.

No problems here, again I used original timings.

Good feature. Thanks

I want to try it but I have a question: whats happen if I choose to use default turnaround time with the return slots? I have to pay them again if the departure time changes considerably?

I want to move Britannias to 767.

Thanks

I've got an idea: is it possible to show list of all scheduled flights before and after conversion (I mean make this popup window a bit bigger and add some info)? With old and new departure/arrival times changing interactively with selected options (keep same arrival time / same departure time / etc) ?

That would be really useful!

No major bugs anymore, so this feature will be enabled for public use tomorrow.

The error messages will be fine-tuned later.

Quote from: Sami on October 17, 2016, 07:20:18 PM
No major bugs anymore, so this feature will be enabled for public use tomorrow.

Of course a week after I finished changing 250 or so,DC-9s to MD-90s!
Great feature! Will be changing my plans now with fleet renewal.  This will make the game so much better as I'm always short on time and fleet transitions were painful! Thanks!

Just tried. 737-400 to MAX9. Worked like a charm.

Thanks a lot.

It would be nice if it suggested the same fleet as the one you try to move schedule from, and then let you choose if you want different, Now it remembers the last type you moved a schedule to.

Edit: This is getting a bit annoying when u flip planes for c or d maintainance

Great feature, wishfully awaited  :)

Quote from: RuneF on October 18, 2016, 05:24:14 PM
It would be nice if it suggested the same fleet as the one you try to move schedule from, and then let you choose if you want different, Now it remembers the last type you moved a schedule to.

Edit: This is getting a bit annoying when u flip planes for c or d maintainance

I am also not a fan of it remembering the last type you moved a schedule to.

I know a lot of people wanted the ability to move schedules to another type, but the only time I move schedules is for D-checks or to clear a page on the scheduling screen to more easily schedule 7 planes together. For fleet renewal I always reschedule to take full advantage of the capabilities of the new fleet and to take into account the change in demand and competition in the previous 20 or so years. I also do a lot of splitting up of aircraft schedules (for example, moving shorter 757 flights to A320s and longhaul 757 flights to A330s). I can't see that changing for me. I would much rather have the selector default to the type I'm moving from.

Although I do like the ability to select sub-types now, so when I'm moving 727 schedules I can restrict it to only 727-200s and not accidentally move a 722 schedule to a 721.

Awesome new feature!

Working like it should on DC-10-->777; will be trying MD-80-->A320s this weekend.

Sami, there is a children's book called give a mouse a cookie...hopefully you have a copy  ;) :)

to that end...I'm with the above post to see if in a next version, there is a way to recognize fleet of plane selected as default replacement option?  I also keep spares for D checks and I've already accidently moved a DC-10 to a 747 as I wasn't paying attention

Although now I'm being more careful...so not the end of the world if too difficult as I will take the ability to upgrade a DC-10 in <1 minute to taking 5-10 of repetitive clicking when using 7 day scheduling...this is the best improvement in a long time...so THANK YOU!

Any new issues with this feature so far?

Works great from my usage.

I like some intelligence the system applies to selecting the fleet type the system selects as default.  (either remembers the one last used or suggests something that is a very good guess).

Sub-fleet selection works great as well.  Helps in case I want to just move schedules of some aircraft in D checks to another aircraft that has no schedule yet.  One minor improvements would be a toggle / checkmark / filter narrowing the selection to either:
- all aircraft
- aircraft ready to fly (excluding aircraft that is in maintenance or pending delivery)

As said it works great except its not suggesting same fleet if available first. That makes the clicks saved with conversion used on normal c-d flip

This helped me so much when I was moving my routes from A320s to MD90s  ;D

Great feature!  :) Helped me out a lot phasing 777s out for A330 NEOs.

Except for the fact that my default turn-around (max for A330) for some reason during the swap was only applied to the destination airport and not the origin airport. At home airport, the turn-around differed from 1.40 to 2.10hrs between different legs, which is lower than the default. 

Feedback after having used this a few times now:

It seems to work fine and do exactly as intended. But, personally, I'm a bit of a micro-manager so with my 7 day schedules I've found myself manually fine-tuning the times of many of the routes anyway so the feature saves little or no time for me.  This is particularly necessary as I try to maximise the scheduling and leave no gaps whatsoever whenever practical.  Of course when moving to a slightly slower aircraft or one that required a longer turnaround, this can get VERY fiddly (for example I was moving DC-9 to MD-80).  It should work like a dream when the move is to faster aircraft such as 737-400 to 737-800 OR A320, although I do tend to schedule LOTS of overnight redeyes with 5am arrival - that will also be an issue.

One thing I'd like to see which is sort of related to this new feature is a way to change the times of all seven routes in a 7-day schedule on one screen, thus making all the rearranging mentioned above equally easy.  Also (something I've mentioned before) a button on the edit route page "Automatically re-schedule the route(s) after edit" so that they go back into the exact same place they were before, without more work.  I think those two features combined would actually save more time overall than this new feature does.