AirwaySim

General forums => General forum => Topic started by: T8KE0FF on October 15, 2011, 11:12:21 AM

Title: What is the point of this!?
Post by: T8KE0FF on October 15, 2011, 11:12:21 AM
I'll admit that i'm a complete neat freak, so this thing makes my blood boil. WHY do some airlines schedule flights like this!? What is the point of giving the SAME flight departing at the SAME time using the SAME aircraft on DIFFERENT days a different flight number!? I know that some players do the whole '7 day schedule' thing which is completely understandable, but this particular user only has 5 aircraft..

For the life of me, I just can't figure out why one would schedule aircraft like this..

Could anyone please enlighten me?

(https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg155.imageshack.us%2Fimg155%2F1871%2Fscreenshot20111015at120.png&hash=1e7736c4c7ddddfb3a33c85197a86e153e020bbd)
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: swiftus27 on October 15, 2011, 11:17:18 AM
This is how Sami made the game?

The player couldn't have those flights under the same flight number.

It does appear that the person is going for a 7 day schedule.
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: T8KE0FF on October 15, 2011, 11:23:43 AM
Quote from: swiftus27 on October 15, 2011, 11:17:18 AM
This is how Sami made the game?

The player couldn't have those flights under the same flight number.

It does appear that the person is going for a 7 day schedule.

Then tell me how flight AP441 has the same flight number for all days of the week?

I don't think you understand what i'm getting at, I don't see why people feel the need to schedule each and every flights separately rather than clicking the 'everyday' check box?
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: T8KE0FF on October 15, 2011, 11:25:44 AM
Here's what I mean, why can't the player just click 'everyday'!?

(https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg403.imageshack.us%2Fimg403%2F9882%2Fscreenshot20111015at122.png&hash=57efaec4ad10a862d8c71dd28ac33b6d3ac0a54d)
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: swiftus27 on October 15, 2011, 11:33:53 AM
Quote from: T8KE0FF on October 15, 2011, 11:25:44 AM
Here's what I mean, why can't the player just click 'everyday'!?

(https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg403.imageshack.us%2Fimg403%2F9882%2Fscreenshot20111015at122.png&hash=57efaec4ad10a862d8c71dd28ac33b6d3ac0a54d)

Take your pills... this one isn't worth fighting.
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: slither360 on October 15, 2011, 01:30:28 PM
I'd guess that this is a newb who saw that "all the really big airlines schedule each route 7 times", and did it too.

It's a shame that more people don't ask on the forum first...
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: minerva on October 15, 2011, 01:42:41 PM
It is also possible that they are just 'trying it out', or even planning on moving schedules around later (and even adopting 7 day scheduling) and want flexibility. If it is so important to know, why not ask them directly?  But really, why should the rest of us be bothered?  It has no impact on anyone else.
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: lilius on October 15, 2011, 03:16:04 PM
Dont get mad because the real pro´s knows how to fit a couple of 7day schedules into 5 aircrafts  ;)
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: LemonButt on October 15, 2011, 08:59:12 PM
Quote from: T8KE0FF on October 15, 2011, 11:12:21 AM
I'll admit that i'm a complete neat freak, so this thing makes my blood boil. WHY do some airlines schedule flights like this!? What is the point of giving the SAME flight departing at the SAME time using the SAME aircraft on DIFFERENT days a different flight number!? I know that some players do the whole '7 day schedule' thing which is completely understandable, but this particular user only has 5 aircraft..

For the life of me, I just can't figure out why one would schedule aircraft like this..

Could anyone please enlighten me?

(https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg155.imageshack.us%2Fimg155%2F1871%2Fscreenshot20111015at120.png&hash=1e7736c4c7ddddfb3a33c85197a86e153e020bbd)

They may only have 5 aircraft TODAY, but in the future they will obviously have many more.  If you schedule a flight for everyday and then shift to a 7-day scheduling scheme, you'll end up having to spend more money on slots versus just moving the flights around...assuming of course that slots are still available.
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: L1011fan on October 16, 2011, 01:37:52 AM
Both systems work just fine. Neither one is really, in the long run, any better. I happen to do 1234567 and all my checks get done, the airline is making money at a very good rate. Well a typical JA rate. My other one in E/A challenge is also scheduled the same and is doing very well for what I intended for it.  So 1234567 is really fine and many people do prefer it. You can make either system work just fine for you. ;)
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: alexgv1 on October 16, 2011, 05:09:15 PM
Quote from: lilius on October 15, 2011, 03:16:04 PM
Dont get mad because the real pro´s knows how to fit a couple of 7day schedules into 5 aircrafts  ;)

Someone please demotivate that  :)
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: Riger on October 22, 2011, 06:23:37 AM
Speaking for myself ...

There are times that I know I will use a certain route in a 7 aircraft sliding schedule.  In some cases, like when I am just staring out, I will schedule separate flights each day so that I do not need to "break it up" again later. Even if I assign these 7 flights to one aircraft, it is easier for me to de-schedule 7 aircraft (when I have them all) and then re-assign them on the sliding schedule.


Regards

Richard
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: slither360 on October 22, 2011, 08:40:10 AM
This post is ludicrous.
Quote from: L1011fan on October 16, 2011, 01:37:52 AM
Both systems work just fine.
so far so good...
Quote from: L1011fan on October 16, 2011, 01:37:52 AMNeither one is really, in the long run, any better.
This is flat out wrong. It is absolutely impossible to get the same utilization out of your planes using 1234567 compared to rotations (single plane or 7 day). Since keeping your airplane flying for more hours = more revenue, and rotations keep your plane flying more hours than 1234567, rotations are better. QED.

Quote from: L1011fan on October 16, 2011, 01:37:52 AM
I happen to do 1234567 and all my checks get done, the airline is making money at a very good rate. Well a typical JA rate.
well, sure. Both systems work, but that doesn't mean that they are equally good. To suggest that they are is ridiculous.
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: stevecree on October 22, 2011, 08:55:30 AM
Airlines may want to concerntrate on other aspects of their stats rather than utilisation, which is fine and does make money.  As Bob said 7 day scheduling is better as it increases revenue and utilisation...best of both worlds.  My MT5 airline has nearly 400 E-jets flying very short routes so I do not bother and just go 1234567....much easier and nothing wrong with doing it.    If I have 400 B777's then I would be 7 day scheduling for sure  !    Different fleets, and routes, suit the different styles of play.
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: Miller11 on October 22, 2011, 02:06:54 PM
Also by running a seven day schedule on seven A/c you can fly east over night to avoid the lack of demand between 2300 and 0500. I do both depending on route and A/c

When its on the ground it costs money when in the are it makes money ...........Simples as the meercat says
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: JonesyUK on October 22, 2011, 06:14:26 PM
you can get high utilization without 7 day scheduling, just schedule flights for the distance you have time for.

Never used 7 day and don't plan to. The effort vs benefit is to high imo.
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: slither360 on October 22, 2011, 06:17:39 PM
Quote from: JonesyUK on October 22, 2011, 06:14:26 PM
you can get high utilization without 7 day scheduling, just schedule flights for the distance you have time for.

Never used 7 day and don't plan to. The effort vs benefit is to high imo.
I understand this point of view.

If you don't think it's worth the effort, that's fine. Your scheduling won't be as good as it possibly could be, but it still will be good enough to make a decent profit.

But that doesn't mean that it is equally as good as a rotation...
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: ArcherII on October 22, 2011, 06:50:28 PM
It's not strictly equal but in average a decent all-day sched can come up 1h behind a 7-day one if time zones cooperate, and it is far less time consuming.
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: alexgv1 on October 22, 2011, 06:54:11 PM
My general rule... it has to be 7 day scheduling for long haul because you generally fly 5-6 times a week. I tried 7 day on short haul, where the planes are flying 20 routes a week... all well and good, small efficiency gains... not so fun when it comes round to fleet renewal. Okay for planes like 757 when you fly a mix of SH and LH. Usually if I fly overnight SH then I just do a 123456- or 12345-7 to accomodate the A check.

Generally I think for short haul, the work is not worth the gains, and you make more work for yourself in the future. But you are definitely better off if you are dedicated enough to do  it. (maybe one day there will be an "advisor" to do it for us wink wink  ;) )
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: JumboShrimp on October 22, 2011, 06:59:08 PM
Quote from: alexgv1 on October 22, 2011, 06:54:11 PM
My general rule... it has to be 7 day scheduling for long haul because you generally fly 5-6 times a week. I tried 7 day on short haul, where the planes are flying 20 routes a week... all well and good, small efficiency gains... not so fun when it comes round to fleet renewal. Okay for planes like 757 when you fly a mix of SH and LH. Usually if I fly overnight SH then I just do a 123456- or 12345-7 to accomodate the A check.

Generally I think for short haul, the work is not worth the gains, and you make more work for yourself in the future. But you are definitely better off if you are dedicated enough to do  it. (maybe one day there will be an "advisor" to do it for us wink wink  ;) )

True, doing 7 day scheduling on short haul takes a lot more effort, and the gains are much smaller than on LH.  But the new feature to copy to next day helped speed up the process.  Maybe at some point, Sami will put in place the full-featured split schedule, where all 7 will be created on one screen, with the same flight number.  At that point, it will be even easier to do, and the airport routes page will be less cluttered...
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: minerva on October 22, 2011, 07:12:37 PM
I've only ever done a 7 day schedule on a few long haul routes late in a game; and the reason for that is the background to my question. I'm not arguing against it, just wondering about its short term vs long term benefit.  Is setting up a 7 day rotation not a positive disadvantage early in a game when you find yourself in heavy competition?  And if you're a/c ordering is on, say, a once a month time frame you cannot then complete your schedule for seven months.  In heavy competition, especially early in a scenario when your CI is low, getting route image up is crucial to getting decent LF, making profit and staving off the competition. That has always seemed to me to be a disincentive to set up 7 day rotations from the get-go.  I understand the points about long term efficiency and fleet utilization maximization, but if you don't get a good start you might not have a long term at all. So I've always wondered, when do those players that are committed to it, start it, and how long before you see a positive outcome?
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: JumboShrimp on October 22, 2011, 07:16:48 PM
There are ways around this problem early in the game.  You can set up a schedule that in the long run will be a 7 day / 7 aircraft schedule, but fit a portion of it on the first aircraft.  It takes a little extra effort, but it can be done.
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: slither360 on October 23, 2011, 02:31:55 AM
Yeah, that's always start with a single plane rotation, rather than a 7 day...
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: Zombie Slayer on October 23, 2011, 05:14:27 AM
Quote from: minerva on October 22, 2011, 07:12:37 PM
I've only ever done a 7 day schedule on a few long haul routes late in a game; and the reason for that is the background to my question. I'm not arguing against it, just wondering about its short term vs long term benefit.  Is setting up a 7 day rotation not a positive disadvantage early in a game when you find yourself in heavy competition?  And if you're a/c ordering is on, say, a once a month time frame you cannot then complete your schedule for seven months.  In heavy competition, especially early in a scenario when your CI is low, getting route image up is crucial to getting decent LF, making profit and staving off the competition. That has always seemed to me to be a disincentive to set up 7 day rotations from the get-go.  I understand the points about long term efficiency and fleet utilization maximization, but if you don't get a good start you might not have a long term at all. So I've always wondered, when do those players that are committed to it, start it, and how long before you see a positive outcome?

Much like you, I normally only use rotations in long haul scheduling. I feel that the utilization gains you get from 7 day scheduling short haul routes are not enough to outweigh the limits you put on yourself when you need to respond to new competition on routes. Now if, as Jumbo, I think, suggested, Sami makes it possible to copy a full 7 day rotation with 1 mouse click instead of doing it flight by flight I may use the practice more often, but now I find it too time consuming and limiting to make it a worthwhile use of my time.

Don
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: FlyTO on October 24, 2011, 03:08:00 PM
Yes this is really time consuming..but one way I got around to it was open an "everyday" route first. Then change that to a single day, eg Monday. Then go through the process of add same route to next day. After you get your 7 single routes, keep your slots, and you're on your way to max fleet utilization.

On the other hand, it is a super pain in the ass to change different fleet planes like I did from A300 to 753 or 321 because of speed and turnaround times. Also, changing routes too, thats why my airline now is static, too time consuming to change anything I just leave it running itself the current way.

So I am a +1 for a feature to make the transition quicker and simpler.

Kevin
Title: Re: What is the point of this!?
Post by: Monk Xion on October 30, 2011, 09:02:42 PM
Quote from: swiftus27 on October 15, 2011, 11:33:53 AM
Take your pills... this one isn't worth fighting.
seems a little angry :P